Raptors-Magic Trade Idea
Im not as tuned into the Raptors' needs and wants as much as I am with the Magic. And perhaps this trade will not be liked by either side. But for the sake of summer fun and pretend GM'ing, I've come up with a pretty comprehensive trade between the two teams. And as I played around further with these ideas, I came up with a very, very good trade for both sides (I would like to think so atleast). Here it is below followed by details as to why both sides would do it.
Magic send to Raptors Hedo Turkoglu on a new 8-13mil per yr contract, Marcin Gortat on a new 4-5.5 mil per yr contract, a future 1st round pick or two as see fit by both sides, Rafer Alston on his last yr of contract at 5.3mil with a partial buy-out option, and Courtney Lee currently on his cheap rookie scale contract.
Raptors send Marcus Banks, Patrick O'Bryant or other filler as needed to finish trade, a future 2nd round pick, and Chris Bosh.
Why?
Lets look out for the Raptors here first. The big reason first, Chris Bosh does not want to sign an extension this summer, out of all the big agents in "the" 2010 summer, Bosh is rumored to leave the Raps more than the other respective stars of the league. Is it true we'll never know, but the Raptors are internally debating to get the most out of him through a trade instead. The Raptors are also rumored to be interested in Hedo Turkoglu, and will have better chances to take him if the Pistons dont throw big money. Turkoglu is a sharpshooter SF who can obviously also playmake very well. He seems to be a very good fit for the Raptors. Raptors are likely to prorate Shawn Marion and he will not lose minutes because Bargnani/Gortat/Turk/Marion are pretty interexchangeable in those 4 spots. Or the Raptors can let him walk as he is a FA now. Their choice. I like the first one for depth, lineup versatility, and toughness Marion gives though.
Here's where Raptors cash big on young pieces;
The Raptors are desperately needing Toughness and Rebounding. I heard this phrase alot concerning what the Raptors needed before. Side note: Critics say this about the Magic too lol. With Marcin Gortat, the Raps will have a legitimate starting center who had one of the highest rebounding rates in the league along with a good pick and roll game and offensive skills down low. No injury history and just 25 yrs old. This moves Andrea Bargnani, the PF/C who finally exploded offensively into a great player, to a PF spot. This is great because quite frankly Bargnani is still not a good defender, esp. at the Center spot!
With Courtney Lee, the Raptors may finally end the SG quest. Despite being just a rookie, Courtney Lee took over the starting SG spot for the Magic by alittle over the halfway point of the regualr season, and was the key defender the Magic used to stop most other teams' best players. He also was a leading scorer for the Magic in the 1st round series until a face injury, coming back to guard LBJ and Kobe in later rounds, playing with high poise, good defense, and scoring efficiently. The future is very bright for Lee and this was a component of the trade I was most hesitant to add to be honest. He looks like he is going to be able to easily increase his offensive role in the future, and the Raptors can stop chasing one of Parker or Delfino who are much pricier, are less defenders, and have less potential than C. Lee. The Raptors can still draft a SG and create a good SG dilemma or fill the Marcus Banks void with a PG from the PG-rich draft.
The one or two future 1st rounders obviously go towards the drafting young talented pieces along with the Raptors' own picks or to be used as trade chips as however they see fit to use the picks.
Rafer Alston lead the Magic to the Finals as a starter, and is ready to accept a backup role he has said publicly. He is a true PG with great passing and defense. He is on his last yr of a 5.3mil contract that will give the Raps some cap flexibilty. They can also do a partial buy-out on his contract to save money right away if they so choose. The bigger cap relief here is that the Raps are essentially dumping the bad, long-term contract of Marcus Banks for an expiring contract of a better PG.
There's the Raptors side of it, they are getting tougher and younger at the same time. Getting more cap flexibility and more draft picks. Great returns on Bosh, and I would very much daresay a 1st round/2nd round playoff threat.
PG- J. Calderon/Alston and/or draft, SG-C.Lee/Parker and/or draft/Marion, SF-Turkoglu/Marion, PF-Bargnani/Turkoglu, C-Gortat/Bargnani.
On to the Magic's end of the trade;
The obvious, big thing here is the Magic get Chris Bosh to play with Dwight Howard and the Magic. On top of it, Bosh is a PF who can put Lewis at his natural SF spot where he is always more comfortable than now. Bosh is a high post operating player who won't get in Dwights way in the deep post much. Bosh also has high fouled rates like Dwight but combines it with a high FT % (Hmmm, what an interesting strategy... he makes his FTs!). Bosh should still post better defense than the out-of-position Lewis, and another added bonus on offense is Bosh's strong ability to pass out of double teams.
Magic do take some risks in still drastically restruncturing their system on offense mainly. Plus, Bosh has only played more than 70 games per season just once in the last 4 seasons because of repetitive minor injuries. Quite frankly tho, the benefits and potential greatly outweigh the risks to me.
The Magic would be abit hard pressed financially. I imagine they'd be in luxury for a season or two actually, and the bench depth could get skeletal. But once again, benefits and potential greatly outweigh here. Magic need to go all-in here and show they take good risks and get it done like GM Smith did with Alston at the very deadline this last season. To finish the trade the Magic would also be taking a future 2nd to cheaply fill out the roster and hope for another golden find like they did with C.Lee this last season, a cheap big like Patrick O'Bryant (and/or other filler) to make the numbers work exactly and add another big to the Magic roster (Hey,a big is a big, use his fouls or something!).
The Raptors would also get to dump the bad, long-term deal of Marcus Banks onto the Magic to make the numbers work and get cap flexibility. The Magic have to take some lumps with the good, but Banks is supposedly a decent defender and shooter, and past history indicates that if Nelson is the only good PG on the roster he will be at his best with the added job security. Anthony Johnson is always the good'ol reliable backup here too if Banks fails at the backup job.
There's the Magic side of it, losing some money, depth, and youth in return for some pieces, a 2nd rounder, and the one and only, Chris Bosh! Would be a risk I would forever love the Magic for bodly taking, and end up very, very probably giving the Magic their first championship soon.
PG- Nelson/ AJ/Banks, SG- Pietrus/JJ Redick, SF- Lewis/Pietrus, PF- Bosh/Lewis/Battie, C- Howard/Battie/OBryant.
Let me know your ideas and thoughts on this trade, especially if your a fan, or person of knowledge, for the Magic or Raptors! Im sure I have some mistakes and small holes on a overall very good trade proposal. Check out the poll too.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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37 comments
Comments
Just for future reference
please don’t title a fan post, “Raptors-Magic Announce a Trade” and then proceed to talk about a trade scenario that you make up, it’s kind of deceptive.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 15, 2009 11:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Reiterating what DSK said
Thanks for changing the title derek.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 16, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And no way would the Magic trade 1/3 of their roster
resign 2 free agents to use in a sign and trade, starting quality PG & SG AND a 1st round pick for someone with one year remaining on his contract.
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jun 15, 2009 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about that title!
I wasnt smart about that and thanks for changing it Ben. But back to the trade, Magic alrdy are talking about trading Alston unfortunately :/ And its still 5.3mil for a backup and can potentially bring up chemistry issues like in the Finals (altho I dont think itll affect anymore after a full season). Magic cant afford Gortat (who plays 10-15mins only anyways), cant turn picks into impactful players with our current and proposed starting lineups. So now we’re talking about Turkoglu and Lee. And I have trouble thinking having Lewis finally go down to 3, put Bosh at 4 for defense. Then on offense a high post Bosh in the middle commanding a double so he can pass down to Dwight or out to the slashing and shooting Magic 3 brigade, and Dwight doing the same. Plus better pick and rolls with that lineup. Alston is a starter, but not with Nelson playing Keyshawn, he will be playing way less min.s , and even less than that in the playoffs. You risk Bosh not extending, but I find it HARD to believe he wouldnt right away with Dwight/Lewis/Nelson/MP core… or after a full season of that. Its all still risky, but frankly its a chance to put two dominating, franchise frontcourt players together who dont play the same game as each other. Its all for fun tho =), trying to see what people think or are amused by with it.. and can deftly change parts around of the trade too!
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty decently thought out, but...
The last thing the Magic need is Marcus Banks. He’s a small guard, which the Magic are already flush with, and is considerably less reliable than Anthony Johnson. The Magic have already got one expendable PG (Tyronn Lue) and don’t need another with an inflated contract.
The current starting 5 for the Magic have done well for themselves this season. I see no particular reason for the Magic to shake things up. There’s no need to upgrade at PF. They’re paying a max salary at that position, and Lewis is exactly what this team, in it’s current incarnation, needs.
Switching out Turk for Bosh doesn’t make sense for the Magic. They have completely different skill sets. The Magic would have no replacement for Turkoglu’s ability to run the offense. Moving Lewis to SF makes little difference on offense. He already creates matchup problems for other teams at PF. He’s said it himself though, “I’ve scored a lot in previous seasons. I don’t need to do that anymore. That’s not my role.” Lewis would still sit on the perimeter as a SF, and sometimes bring it into the lane for a midrange jumper with the occasional drive to the hoop. No change. Bosh, crowds things inside. I know he’s high post, but Howard needs room to grow. If his offenseive game is going to come around, he doesn’t need an offensively talented big man cramping his style. Bosh is also fragile. Orlando has seen more fragile players in the last decade than any town deserves.
Furthermore, I don’t see Turk making Toronto all that much better. Who is going to carry the load? There’s no way the Magic want to give up Courtney Lee for anything. There are the makings in Orlando of a San Antonio/Utah/Detroit style dynasty. Great coach, good management, lots of talent, and the ability to keep the team stable and grow a litle more every year.
I hate to say it, but Toronto’s in a bad way…
by farfromfl on Jun 16, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great thoughts
Banks might not even play, but its somehting that might entice Raps further. AJ could very well be more reliable. Nelson has most of the minutes here.
The current 5 right now is deftly a big point no doubt. This fanpost is half fun just because the Magic made the Finals run as is alrdy. Its no doubt a very possible dumb move, but goes fundamentally back to if Dwight can handle Bostons, LA’s (Maybe Cle) big men mostly by himself, and if Bosh would improve the Magic more than Turk (I think so to both, so a dilemma).
Im pretty sure theres a big potent offense to be found in Calderon/Lee/Turkoglu/Marion/Bargnani/Gortat. Those are all sharpshooters and good ball handlers.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much stated my opinion about this particular trade idea, for the most part.
I like Bosh, but acquiring him would disrupt the excellent synergy Orlando has been able to create.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 16, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Presumably
Banks would enjoy watching from the bench while we went back to the Nelson – AJ combo.
Lue’s contract is finished, he won’t be re-signed.
Otherwise I mostly agree.
by eltharion_doa on Jun 17, 2009 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brief Thoughts:
I don’t see this trade working at all:
Gortat and Turkoglu combined will make about the same money as Bosh – maybe a million or so more, maybe a million or so less. A straight-up trade wouldn’t favor Toronto, since they could try to sign one or both in the off-season themselves. The attempt to throw extra players in doesn’t help Toronto.
Alston and Banks make about the same money, but Skip’s a much better player (using PER just because I have easy access to it, Skip’s a 13.8, Banks a 7.8). Banks also has a longer contract, and is less of an outside shooter (33% career 3PT – Skip’s 35.4%). Orlando’s not going to accept a significant downgrade at PG for only $500k savings.
Courtney Lee is pretty close to untouchable on my book. You might be able to get him away from Orlando, but it’ll take a pretty good deal. An expiring rookie contract for an awkward 7’ center isn’t a good deal.
I frankly see this as a trade that would make Orlando a much weaker team. With a starting lineup of Nelson/Pietrus/Lewis/Bosh/Howard, and a backup squad of Banks/Redick/???/Battie/O’Bryant, it would be hard to see this team getting out of the first round, let alone back into the Finals.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
by The Dark on Jun 16, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I can see some depth issues that are too big :)
I would ammend it to take Lee out and add a 1mil expiring, non consequential player instead (if they want something more than just expiring, maybe Redick?).
Nelson/AJ, Lee/Redick, Lewis/Pietrus, Bosh/Battie, Howard/Battie/OBryant. And some new draft pick in there smewhere from a purchase or the trade does not kill Magic depth, and Magic are only losing Turk and 10mins from Gortat for Chris Bosh!
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't imagine why Toronto would even consider this deal
But, that’s me.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 16, 2009 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have some more trade proposals..
That Id like to post later in the summer that are much more realistic. They’d all pretty much have Hedo re-signing w/ Magic so everyone is back. Just minor stuff to see if Magic can trade Battie or Alston, two big expiring contracts, for great returns player-wise and cap-wise hopefully. Neither are big, bad contracts that won’t see rotation or starts becaue Battie is a mid-short shooter and great defender/energy guy, and Alston is essentially still a starter-level PG with great defense. Just wanted to have some fun with this crazy Chris Bosh trade proposal first haha.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Derek
I’ve made a lot of these trade proposal’s. If they don’t work under the salary cap, they’re going to be difficult to execute. Therefore, they aren’t worth proposing.
I suggest you bone up using the following things: Larry Coon’s Salary CAP FAQ, using quality salary information (don’t use Hoopshype) like Draft Express, ShamSports, Storytellers, Wyn of Canis Hoopus’ site all are good stuff. (I suggest using DX or Sham if you don’t understand spreadsheets. Wyn’s spreadsheet is terrific though if you can understand it.)
Another suggestion is you actually throw this stuff out before it happens. You might even win fortune teller of the year for 3QC.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is the link for Sham
I screwed the link up, sorry. Link
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 16, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks pookeyguru
This is great stuff, I will be reading them and attempting to learn them. I v only been using ESPN Trade Machine to make a general sense of the numbers at work.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you have any questions or need help interpreting Coon's FAQ
Don’t hesitate to send me questions via email. (It will be quicker and easier for me to answer them that way.) My email is in my profile if you need it.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
by pookeyguru on Jun 17, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alternate Bosh scenario
This all depends on us not resigning Hedo. If Hedo leaves, I say save that money and don’t sign any other big names. Then when Alston and Battie are off the books following next season, we’ll have about $17-$18 mil to spend. Bosh will be a free agent next off-season, so throw about $14 mil at him. Then you have a rotation of
Starters: Nelson, Lee, Lewis, Bosh, Howard
Bench: Redick, Pietrus
Then you’ll have another $4 mil or so to maybe acquire so cheap vets (a la PJ Brown for the Celts last year) to fill out the roster.
The only downside is that we’d have to sacrifice next year by not immediately replacing Turkoglu. I’m not saying I want it to unfold this way, but I think it’s an interesting alternative and would work out a lot better for Orlando than the above trade.
by Lee for three on Jun 16, 2009 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes also. But
I cant find anyone confiriming if the numbers will work or not for sure. These things are complicated and can have cap issues, contract issues, etc. But it seems theoretically possible to happen and its discussed in the other fanpost “Devil’s Advocate to Turk.” One mediocre season, and then Nelson/Lewis/MP/Lee/DWIGHT AND a brand new Arena should have multiple big stars calling.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you sure
that you’ll have that much cap space? Just to make things clear, there’s a difference between the salary cap and the luxury tax line. In my understanding, Orlando is currently UNDER the tax line but OVER the salary cap. That means even if Orlando doesn’t resign Turk this season, they will be over the cap and unable to sign a free agent except with the MLE and any trade exceptions they have.
I could be totally wrong on this, however, as I am by no means a cap expert. Any cap experts that are out there, feel free to correct me.
by Worthy J. on Jun 16, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to mention
That both the cap and the luxury tax line will likely go down in the ensuing seasons, making it even harder for teams to get under the cap to sign free agents.
by Worthy J. on Jun 16, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I think you're right, but!
The Magic know they are increasing their revenue greatly lately and for the forseeable future. They are open to going Lux-deep for Turkoglu right now, with Battie and Alston still on the books for 12 mil next season. Wouldnt it theoretically be equal to say they’d go Lux-deep over a superstar or big, big FA in 2010 summer buying a 2nd rounder/late 1st and a cheap vet instead of Battie/Alston? That means walking away from Turk and keeping Battie/Alston one more season. Pietrus jumps to SF in meantime.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read my comment below.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 16, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's how the cap works.
If you’re over the cap, even if you are willing to pay the tax, you can’t sign a free agent. Exceptions are made for retaining your own players and obviously, the MLE doesn’t count as part of the cap.
That’s why NY has to clear so much cap space instead of pulling a Yankees and just paying for every free agent out there.
I might be misunderstanding what you’re saying though. Are you saying that with Hedo, Alston, and Battie gone Orlando will be far enough under the cap to sign a superstar FA? In order to do so, Orlando will probably need 15-16 million in cap space, more if you’re going for one of the big names like Lebron, Wade, or Bosh.
by Worthy J. on Jun 16, 2009 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that was what I was saying
If Turk comes off the books this year, we don’t replace him w/anyone big and then after next season we shed another $11 mil w/Alston + Battie. I don’t know the exact figures, but I’m willing to bet we’re under the cap when you take away that $18 or so mil
by Lee for three on Jun 17, 2009 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand that, but
Do the Magic have to be under the cap so much that it can sign Bosh and be still right below the cap? Or do the Magic have to just be alittle bits below the cap?
by derekk on Jun 17, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if you only have to be at slightly below cap, then
the Magic would have about 18.2mil to spend before entering luxury territory with 6 core, impact players (6-7 total players- Dwight, Lewis, Pietrus, Lee, Nelson- which is a starting five in quality- plus JJRedick and 1 other low impact player or so I think). So get right outside of luxury signing a 14-20mil for a D Wade, LBJ, Bosh kinda player, and then head into luxury to cheaply filling out the rest roster with min. vets, and a cheap picks (theres a mandated 12 player min. roster, but remember the Magic have depth w/ MP,Lee, Redick. Prolly keeping a cheaper AJ too). The Magic very easily avoid tax paying for the upcoming season, but then must pay the tax for next 2-3 seasons until everyone’s contracts are up (namely Lewis’ 22mil that yr).
by derekk on Jun 17, 2009 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luxury and Teams
Teams pay Luxury with pleasure when they are winning championships and have a duo like Kobe+Shaq, or Wade+Dwight, or LBJ+Dwight. =)
by derekk on Jun 17, 2009 2:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Magic can't just be slightly under the cap.
.. the team has to have the funds available to offer a max contract.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 17, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea, I found out earlier hehe. Thanks tho.
Its not going to work at all then, even letting Turk, Alston, Battie all go next summer. It HAS to be sign and trades, and quite frankly Id rather have Turk back at 7-11mil per yr and get creative trying to trade Lewis now, who has the bloated contract. I have a few scenarios that other teams might bite on.
by derekk on Jun 17, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Word.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 17, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. That's another issue ..
.. and was, until news broke that the team would enter the luxury tax, a problem for the Magic.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 16, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, you're correct.
Orlando is under the tax, for now, but over the cap.
Teams that are over the cap can’t offer anything more than the MLE, etc. Teams that are under the cap can offer as much money as they want, with the max contract as the most a squad can offer.
So you’re correct, Worthy .. on all counts.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
by erivera7 on Jun 16, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good to know
I was trying to work out the salaries for a few teams so it’s nice to know that my assumptions were correct. Hopefully the economy will start looking up sooner than later so the cap will rise again. I’d rather be talking about play on the court than worried about issues off.
by Worthy J. on Jun 16, 2009 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh...very interesting
So then its really quite impossible. I dont think the Magic can do it with Nelson, Lewis, Howard alone but ill look closer later on. We’re looking at sign and trades then, if we want to risk losing Turk that is, which is looking more and more dumb, and yet funner to do lol.
by derekk on Jun 16, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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