What They're Saying Before the Orlando Magic and the Los Angeles Lakers Face Off in the NBA Finals: Part I
- Magic not satisfied with Eastern Conference title
Don't try to sell the Orlando Magic on the notion they are now playing with house money.
They aren't buying it.
They aren't buying the idea that since they've exceeded all expectations — flat-out stunned most experts — it doesn't matter how things turn out in the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers.
Just getting to the big stage in L.A. isn't enough for Dwight Howard.
"We ain't finished yet," Howard said. [...]
Same reason [General Manager Otis Smith] wouldn't allow champagne in the Magic's dressing room.
"That's not the goal," Smith said.
His players get the message: The ring's the thing. - Orlando savors Magic's success
George Diaz talks about how the city of Orlando has rallied around the Magic.
- The vote is in: A majority of Americans say the Lakers will beat the Magic
Josh Robbins reveals that an ESPN poll shows that 59% of the nation predict the Los Angeles Lakers will win the NBA Finals, while 41% of the nation predict the Orlando Magic will win the NBA Finals.
- Endless Potential for Stories from Lakers and Magic In The NBA Finals
No one except purists just wants to see good basketball in the Finals. Sorry, Pistons and Spurs of years past, but after this many weeks of watching, I need more in my life. At the same time, as much as the obvious Kobe/Bron showdown would've given the people what they wanted, it would've overshadowed all else. And very likely could've let us down like crazy. How could it not? How would we make sense of it all if it didn't boil down to a one-on-one contest?
Here's what makes Magic/Lakers such an intriguing Finals: There will be stories to be told. Exactly what they are, and what form they will take, no one knows. What happens when Stan Van Gundy and Phil Jackson walk into a bar? Is this the beginning of Kobe's farewell tour, Dwight Howard's coming-out party, or will we totally neglect the enormous discrepancy in age between these two stars? How important is Trevor Ariza to the Lakers, and does anyone remember that he could very easily be doing all this for the Magic?
- Nelson's Comeback Far From Certain
Bethlehem Shoals of The Baseline comments on Jameer Nelson's possible return.
- Five Questions Before the NBA Finals
Sean Deveney of The Baseline offers five questions concerning the Magic and the Lakers.
- Shaq Or Superman
On ESPN.com, former Orlando Magic head coach Brian Hill compares Dwight Howard to Shaquille O'Neal in 1995 and talks about both players.
- Dwight Howard's HS Coach
On ESPN.com, Courtney Brooks discusses about his time coaching Superman in high school.
- Examining trends between the Orlando Magic, Los Angeles Lakers
[...] I picked the Lakers to win in six.
I'll delve into my reasons for liking L.A. as we get further into the week, but for now I wanted to focus more on those two Orlando victories, as well as the teams' only other meeting since the Pau Gasol trade (a 117-113 L.A. win in Orlando on Feb. 8, 2008). In the three games, six major trends popped up that are worth noting. Those factors should gave us an early read on storylines to look for in the Finals.
- Monday Bullets
I see these NBA Finals as two evenly-matched titans. Imagine my surprise to learn that I am the only ESPN.com "expert" to pick the Magic. I'm proud of the pick, though, for the simple reason that the Magic have been playing the best basketball I have seen this year. The Lakers were fantastically good in eliminating the Nuggets. But the Magic have some of the best defense in the NBA, a conundrum for opponents in whether to double Dwight Howard or stay with 3-point shooters, and most importantly: I can't remember a single playoff play at either end of the court when the Magic didn't play hard.
- Magic Will Gain Financially From Finals
When you are going for the 30th time in franchise history -- like the storied Los Angeles Lakers are -- getting to the NBA Finals seems almost like a birth right. When it's just the second time in a checkered, 20-year franchise history, and in a small-market, one-sport town like Orlando, it's an event of monumental proportion.
Win or lose at the NBA Finals this month, the Magic are going to capitalize financially in a big way.
The Magic sold 400 new season tickets on Sunday, the day after eliminating Cleveland in the Eastern Conference final, and they have sold 2,700 season tickets since the playoff began, a huge boost for a team that has struggled with an operating deficit the last several years.
The Magic are planning a move into a new building for the start of the 2010-11 season, and the momentum of these playoffs has been a significant help in gaining corporate and political support throughout the area. [...]
The Magic are back in the NBA Finals for the first time since 1995 when they were swept by the Houston Rockets. Their season-ticket base for next season will be just over 11,000, the most it has been since the departure of Shaquille O'Neal in the summer of 1996.
- Five Thoughts: NBA Finals Edition
Matt Steinmetz of NBA FanHouse previews the 'title bout' between Orlando and Los Angeles.
- Jameer Nelson Might Return for Finals
[...] if Nelson were only available to play limited minutes, it could be a huge swing for the Magic. The Magic already have proven that they're simply loaded with weapons. Getting Nelson back in any form, even for brief stints would provide them another matchup advantage on the Lakers, whose point guard corps have struggled mightily in the playoffs. Starting point guard Derek Fisher is widely considered to be the weak link on the squad, and neither Jordan Farmar nor Shannon Brown have provided consistent support. [...]
Still, there are risks to bringing back Nelson, who hasn't played in four months. If Nelson isn't immediately in game shape, he could provide an opportunity for the Lakers to turn their disadvantage at point to an advantage, preying upon a still injured player whose endurance isn't up. There's also the concern over chemistry. While Rafer Alston has been blasted for his shooting and decision making, there's no question the team feels confident with him running the reins. Additionally, the Magic have settled into comfortable rotations with Anthony Johnson taking the reins for extended periods and being productive in a backup role. Re-introducing Nelson could damage that chemistry, and the Finals are not really the time you want to start experimenting.
Odds are that the Magic will hold out Nelson in order to protect his shoulder after the rather large extension they gave him in Oct. 2007. But if for some reason Nelson is able to get back on the floor and produce, the Lakers may find themselves for the first time in the postseason staring at a team with more weapons than they have. Even with Kobe Bryant.
- Your Very Own Chemistry Playset
Rob Mahoney of Hardwood Paroxysm elaborates on the possibility of 'Meer returning to play in the NBA Finals for the Magic and the ramifications that may or may not occur.
- Predicting the Finals With SPM
Neil Paine of Basketball-Reference predicts the championship round with statistical plus/minus and offers up his winner (Lakers in 6).
One caveat is that SPM did not get a good read on the Magic in the East Finals — while it fairly accurately estimated their odds at 53-54% against the Celtics, it greatly underestimated their chances vs. Cleveland, pegging their probability of beating the Cavs at just 18%. Then again, the 2009 Eastern Conference Finals may go down as one of the shining examples of point differential’s failure to effectively predict the future under certain specific circumstances.
- Too much Rod Benson: Amazing
Rod Benson of Ball Don't Lie wonders what other amazing things will happen in the NBA Finals between the Orlando Magic and the Los Angeles Lakers.
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Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard among many NBA Finals comparisons
UPDATE: Steven Aschburner of Sports Illustrated states that a "breakdown of the X's and O's in the 2009 NBA Finals can wait until closer to Game 1. For now, we'll go with a good ol' tale of the tape, heavy on the intangibles."
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Couple Notes
I thought the Sunday Conversation with Dwight was really, really good.
It really does bother me that people point to issues such as out three-point shooting, and shoddy FT%, and Rafer at the point as uncharacteristic of NBA champions, when everyone is ignoring the NBA’s highest adage:
Defense wins Championships.
Look at the Defensive PPG allowed this year and the Magic best the Lakers by 5 points. How is this not looked at as a key? It’s the one thing everyone pointed to about Boston last year, and the Spurs and Detroit of years past…but no one really wants to discuss that.
It’s not us vs. them. That’s not what I’m getting at here. It’s that I find it truly odd that Defense, the one thing everyone ascribes to the best teams—isn’t being mentioned. And it just so happens that we have the significantly better one. ; )
(Good job collecting all this E, thanks, I read most of them)
Yeah, it's surprising that the Magic's defense is garnering more attention.
.. as you said, everyone is pointing to the offensive side of the ball and ignoring what wins title. Defense. There are different ways to win but that’s such a powerful cliche in sports .. yet it’s ignored with Orlando.
No problem with the links, btw. Figured it’d be good to gather everything for everyone to read.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I agree with your overall premise
But keep in mind you need to compare defensive efficency rather than just outright PPG scored by opponents. Your point still holds true, as Orlando’s defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 posessions) is 98.9 while LA’s is 101.9 (3 point differential). The overall PPG differential of 5 is higher than the 3 point differential due primarily to LA’s modestly faster pace (96.9 possessions/game compared to Orlando’s 94.6).
But again, I agree with your argument.
"Respect everyone, fear no one." -TP
Correct.
It’s better to look at defensive eff., which adjusts for pace, than looking at PPG allowed.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
One more note, though...
While pace is largely a function of… well, pace, one thing that can inflate pace is poor transition defense. That’s one thing I’d argue about the Magic: on paper, they look like an average pace team. But I’d claim they were actually a moderately fast team with excellent transition D. There aren’t a lot of teams getting fast-break baskets off us, whicch keeps things from getting TOO fast..
As for the Lakers, they definitely play a fast offense, but I don’t really have a good handle on how they defend the fast break. It’s probably not an amazing weakness for them, but given that most of their personnel (especially Fisher) aren’t exactly known for their foot speed, I wouldn’t be shocked if it wasn’t their best quality. Anyone got any insight on this?
Yeah, and we broke your damn shot clock too.
I've never heard transition defense being a problem for the Lakers.
.. the main things L.A. struggles with on defense is quick PG’s, three-point shooting, etc.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
*tear*
I think Orlando will be okay if he doesn’t suit up.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
erivera is right, those are our biggest weaknesses.
In otherwords Jameer. It will be interesting to see what happens between the two teams without him. Or with a limited Nelson.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Lakers-Magic
Defensively speaking>>>Bynum , Gasol = Howard, Gortat (Battie) or (Foyle); Bryant = Pietrus, Lee,; PG is a wash unless Jameer is our backup then I like our chances; We can go big or we can go small. How about 5-Howard (Foyle), 4-Gortat (Battie), 3-Lewis (Turkoglu), 2-Turkoglu (Lee,Pietrus), 1-Alston (Johnson,Nelson). Redick, Lee, Pietrus, can play 2-3!!! Or Howard, Lewis, Turkoglu, Lee, Alston… Magic have NO Chance!!! Keep saying it and watch them shine!
That's a terrible way of sizing up the matchups, with over-simplification. It's not that easy to decipher.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Match-ups
I wasn’t trying to over simplify the match-ups. Just making a point that if the Lakers have a bunch of left-handed power hitters, the Magic have a couple of lefties with a cutter/slider in the bullpen. I saw Gortat in the German Bundesliga and he had few physical skills then, but he had a very high basketball IQ – he doesn’t get beat for being out of position often, he takes charges, etc. even if his foot speed is a bit below average. Gortat will be a 15-10 man next year, easy, if he leaves. He could be our X-factor. They have some bigs, but so do we. They can be long and quick at the 3, we can be a step quicker. My biggest point was simply to say that we have cogs at all positions. Redick spent 4 years at Duke running off of screens so he was well-suited to chase Ray Allen. How many guys could do the job he did – and we only needed the threat of his jumper and a few assists! Redick a shut down corner! ha! Ariza might have a couple inches on Pietrus/Lee, but our guys can defend his style pretty well. His drives can’t be much more difficult to stop the LeBron’s!? Gasol will flop or shy away from too much contact (they teach that over here in Europe), and Zen Master Jackson is too experienced to not try any and everything. His Chicago teams always seemed to have someone step up and bite their opponent. When Eddie House looked to be the guy to bite us, SVG shut him down. Completely. In chess every move is both good offensively as well as defensively, SVG has got some options.
Of course I know it ain’t chess, when both teams start with the same pieces. But remember, pawns and their position, are the most important pieces. We get caught up with queens and rooks, but coherent cooperation of the littler known guys, can win the match (series).
In the endgame, I like our focus, our being continually over-looked and dissed, our leaders. Everyone seems to know/accept their roles, and exude a quiet confidence.
I love your quote from the “Godfather”, how about one from the “Art of War”,
Never underestimate your opponent.A real Laker weakness, perhaps even a fatal flaw.
So just like the Tampa Bay Rays or the Arizona Cardinals, we find ourselves playing for the whole shebang. Let’s hope we can wear down Kobe (see previous series vs the immolated King James), and close the deal. Go Magic!
I don’t see the advantage in putting Gortat in at 4. He doesn’t seem fast enough to guard Gasol, and not having both Lewis and Turk on the court cuts down our offensive abilities. Or am I underestimating Gortat here?
Gortat should and will see minutes backing up Dwight Howard, but that's it.
Pairing the centers together works defensively, but not so much offensively.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I won't lie, I'm still looking things over ..
.. I’ll give my official prediction in a few days. I’m purposely building up the hype, hah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I have been told that someone from TQC and someone from SSR will be representing their team blogs..............
at the Finals. Is that someone you?
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well, 3QC has had media access to the Magic for a little while now.
I’m in Chicago right now finishing up school, so I won’t be on press row but my colleague, Ben Q. Rock, will be. He’s been at most Orlando playoff games already.
If I was back home, I’d be there too but unfortunately, I’m out of town for the moment.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ah, I see.
Josh (runs SSR) made it out like it was a big deal for both bloggers, but apparently it is just a big deal for him. LOL. He only started SSR about 6 weeks ago so it probably is. Also he lives in Kansas so it is quite a trip as well.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yeah, it's not a big deal for us. Like I said, we've had the access for a bit now.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Not sure .. how to respond to that, hah.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I must say, I'm really excited...
…that everyone nationally who is picking the Lakers is citing Lamar Odom as being the difference maker. He had two good games at the end of the Nuggets series and everyone is willing to throw out a decade of inconsistency and underachieving.
Personally, I think other factors will be more important in the outcome…but if it turns out that the play of Lamar Odom will decide who wins this series…I feel confident Orlando will be raising its first championship banner.
Odom will be an x-factor but yeah, his inconsistency should be noted.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
First post here, nice to see you all.
Actually I commented on some Celtic/Laker hater, the other day, but other than that………..first time here.
Anyway Odom is inconsistent, but don’t think that means he will disappear for 7 straight games or even appear for 1 or 2. His inconsistency this year has been more like half the time as opposed to showing up 20% of the time like in the past. If he has 2 or 3 good games those will likely be Laker wins and I can live with that, because the Lakers almost always win when he plays big, but they don’t lose that often when he doesn’t.
BTW, this ain’t your daddy’s Trevor Ariza either. He is playing much, much, better than he ever did at NY or Orlando.
Another semi-unknown that has played very well is Shannon Brown. He isn’t getting a lot of minutes because of Phil Jackson’s stubborn refusal to reduce Derek Fisher’s minutes, but when he gets in he is playing very, very, well.
Should be a great series, look forward to the games and the “semi-friendly” banter with you guys. What are your rules on swearing?? Not a huge potty mouth, but it is always good to know. Over at SilverScreen and Roll the rule of thumb is don’t use it toward another fan and don’t just use it gratuitously.
See ya.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I'm familiar with Ariza's emergence and the good play of Shannon Brown.
.. I’ve been keeping an eye on the Lakers from a more analytical and scouting standpoint.
We have a ‘no swearing rule’ at 3QC but we understand that during live game threads, emotions run high and people will curse here and there. That’s fine but we try to keep it to a minimum.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I'm not saying he will be a non-factor for this series
He probably will have a couple of very good games. I just think he’s more likely to lay an egg in a pivotal game than he is to show up in a big moment.
I was always a fan of Ariza when he was in Orlando and I was upset when we let him go. That being said, Mickael Pietrus has also flourished this post-season and will be key in providing solid one-on-one D against Kobe.
For the Lakers, the biggest key defensively will be can they stop Howard consistently with single coverage. If they can, Orlando’s offense will struggle. If they can’t, it’s going to be a long series.
by Lee for three on Jun 1, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that's a key for L.A. .. can they contain Howard?
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Odom as the X-factor
As I mentioned before, Odom has a looong history of mental and emotional issues that WILL surface again, several times in this series. If he guards Turk, he WILL start to twitch and burn; picking up fouls faster than you can send food orders in a crowded cafeteria!
If Lewis takes on Gasol, his quickness will cause MANY turovers. But, having said that, the Magic MUST box him OUT, for he is deadly tapping second chance points behind smaller defenders.
Kobe WILL have his hands full with Lee AND Pietrus taking turns on him.
As for the rest of the team, I dont forsee them making more trouble than Mo and West, who in the end did not make any dent in the outcome of the series.
Maybe its just me, but I STILL see MAJOR matchup problems for LA, which is why I choose the Magic to win their FIRST NBA Championship, in 6 games. Starting with game ONE!
My response to that...........
Luke Skywalker: “Your overconfidence is your weakness”.
Darth Vader: “Your faith in your friends is yours”.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Definitely not overconfidence on the part of Magic fans.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I agree.............
I meant more about the overconfidence in Lee and Pietrus vs. Kobe than overconfidence in their team as a whole. Also I just thought it was a great spot to insert a Star Wars quote.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Both of those players realize the task at hand against a great player like Kobe.
It won’t be easy, but Lee and Pietrus will be ready. That’s all that matters.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ready yes.........
effective……….who knows? Battier was ready, and played Kobe great, but Kobe still had a very, very good series. On another note I sense there is a Lebron>Kobe feeling here. I certainly hope you’re not hanging your hat on that one. Different player, yes. Better, no.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well, LeBron is the better player but Kobe presents his own unique problems.
As many have mentioned here, Bryant may not barrel into the lane with physicality like James, but he makes up for it with some better outside shooting. Though ..
.. the difference isn’t that big between either player.
http://www.nba.com/hotspots/
James shoots a higher percentage, but that’s more so because he’s able to finish around the basket at a high clip and with regularity. Kobe is a little bit better than LeBron, shooting-wise, but again .. the difference isn’t that big between ’em.
Bryant has a bit of a better mid-range game and he’s able to finish around the basket better than James. That’s really about it, with regards to the differences.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
LOL
Almost your entire post contradicts this part.
“Well, LeBron is the better player”
Funny we always hear that Kobe is an equal defender, better outside shot, better mid-range game, better closer, better free throw shooter, but “Lebron is the better player”. I haven’t figured that one out yet.
Yeah he put up the better stats this year, but so what? When Kobe was 27 he averaged 35 ppg, scored 50 points 4 games in a row, and scored 81 in one game. I am not saying that makes him better than Lebron, I am just saying that stats can be used anyway you want them.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
For a lot of those points, the biggest difference is time
Lebron has become a much better jump shooter and closer…but the fact is Kobe has been doing both of those things for longer. But since he has 7 years on Lebron, that’s to be expected. I think the biggest point of all this is…a pretty generous stance is that the two are about equal right now…but Kobe is exiting his prime while Lebron is entering it.
But personally I think Laker fans get way too defensive about this. A lot of the same people who say Lebron is better than Kobe (myself included) also say that Kobe has a better supporting cast and the Lakers overall are the better team.
If the Magic win it all this year, Rockets fans can go on and on with their arguments about Yao Ming being better than Dwight. I don’t think it’s true, but if we get a ring, it doesn’t really matter. Because as much as I love and am a fan of Dwight, I’m a fan of the Magic first. I started liking this team because of Shaq. But after he left, I stuck with Orlando. So to me, as long as we’re winning, people can say whatever they want about our players.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
maybe we do get defensive, but to me.........
saying Lebron is better than Kobe is like putting 3 bullets in a six shooter, pulling the trigger, and saying you are sure you will live.
Also I am not sure Kobe is exiting his prime. I think he is right in the middle of it, but time will tell.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I can definitely understand the frustration...
because I think the “who’s better” argument is so played out. Again though…without knowing too much about you, I’d be willing to bet you were a Lakers fan before Kobe and will continue to be one after Kobe…it’s team success, to me, that should be the most important thing.
By exiting his prime, I don’t mean he’s going to fall off the face of the earth in two years…but for a guy that came into the league right out of high school, the mileage starts to pile up. I think for the most part, he’s done getting better. That doesn’t mean he will be worse next year, I just think at the age of 31 and 13 years in the leauge a gradual decline is in his future.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
True, I have been a Laker fan since the early 80's.........
and I will for a long time to come. Maybe we have a different definition of exiting his prime. I definitely think he won’t get any better, but I think his production will be pretty even for a few more years.
And not to nitpick, but he’s 30. 31 in August.
On another topic, do you think it is a good idea for Jameer Nelson to try and play (assuming he is healthy)? In other words would he be a help or a hindrance (rust)?
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I personally am against Nelson making a return.
I think the potential negative impacts (rust, not being in game shape, risk of further injury, etc) far outweigh the potential positives…especially since he probably wouldnt see more than 10-15 minutes a game. We got this far with this current team…I say let’s ride it out and hope for the best.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
that's pretty much my opinion too.
Trevor Ariza is a good example. Last year he missed the 2nd half of the season. When he got injured he was playing a vital role for our team. He returned for the finals and was basically useless.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yeah
basically my stance is, I don’t care how good you are or what kind of a role you are asked to play…no one comes back from a 4-month layoff and is able to contribute immediately. Even if it only takes 2 games to get back into a groove…that’s a pretty long time in a seven-game series. Playing a team as good as the Lakers there is very little margin for error and I don’t think you take that risk of even a 1-2 game adjustment period.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Strange thing for Andrew Bynum is that he came back from injury....
And played really well immediately. Then the playoffs started and he just lost it. I think foul trouble kept him from getting any rhythm in the first round and he has been trying to get it ever since.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
IMO, Bynum is the most important player in this series not named Kobe or Dwight
As I’ve mentioned before, unless you can stop Howard with just one player, the Magic offense is near impossible to stop. Bynum needs to be that guy to slow Dwight down w/o needing the double team…but he also needs to have a good series offensively so Howard can’t roam when playing defense. We saw last series Howard for the most part ignore Varejao and help out a lot on D because we knew Andy couldn’t kill us offensively. I really think when it comes down to it, how Bynum fares in this series determines the winner.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Jameer nelson was the deciding factor
The lakers regular season series is apples.
the finals are oranges, there can be no real comparison. they are 2 different teams then what they were when they played each other last.
It will be a fun learning experience for both teams.
Here's the thing about Orlando though
they have a number of guys who can step up and have a great game. All 5 starters on Orlando have scored 24 points or more in a game this postseason. And while, our best guy off the bench, Pietrus, hasn’t cracked 20…he’s cracked double digits in all but two games since Lee got hurt in the first round. So yeah, Jameer killed the Lakers in the regular season…but this team is so well-rounded there’s a different guy who can kill you each night.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Also read into this what you want...
I’m not a huge fan of solely numbers-based arguments, but our two losses against Cleveland were the two games where Pietrus played the least amount of minutes. I think that is, in part, a testament to the way he disrupted and frustrated Lebron throughout the series.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I think one factor could also be whether or not Howard gets into foul trouble.
The Lakers have a lot of post players and “rim attackers”. With Howards tendency to try and block a lot of shots and his propensity for fouling (fair or not), he may get into foul trouble. I think that could play a huge part in this series. However I agree about Bynum. If he plays well and doesn’t get into too much foul trouble it takes away a lot of what you guys do. We will see.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yeah, foul trouble will be a factor.
Always is with Dwight Howard.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Gortat will be fine.
.. and just keep continuing to do the things he’s good at, which is defending, rebounding, etc.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Of course, you're going to say Kobe is better.
.. but he’s not. I rather not touch on the subject because this isn’t a Kobe v. LeBron debate. I hate talking about it, because its so frivolous and pointless.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Where exactly did I say Kobe is better????
I am pretty sure my point was that it is RIDICULOUS to say that either one of them is better.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Dude, relax.
.. I was being sarcastic. Guess I wasn’t making myself clear on that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Usually my sarcasm meter is better tuned I guess........
I still don’t see the sarcasm, but I am sensitive to the subject. Do you mean that you DON’T think Lebron is better?
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
It was poor sarcasm on my part, I apologize.
.. should have went with the /sarcasm tag. Whoops.
I do think LeBron is better but that’s my opinion. Simple as that.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well, to me the difference between....
“I think Lebron is better” and “Lebron is better” is a huge one. However it’s your site, I am just renting space.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well, the two comments are tied together .. somewhat.
I’ll leave it at that. I’ll follow my own advice and refrain.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
BTW..........
what’s with your avatar. I would think NO ONE would have Shaq as their pic.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I'm a Shaq fan, what can I say.
I’m in the minority around here but that’s okay.
Whoops, that rhymed.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ah.....now I know why you don't like Kobe.
Busted. ha ha ha.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I actually like Kobe.
.. been a fan for a while.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
- Kobe will get his, though Lee & Pietrus will make him work for his points.
- Gasol has been having an excellent postseason, but Lewis is an underrated defender. All I keep hearing is that Pau will have a potential field day against Rashard. I don’t foresee that happening. Will Gasol play well? Probably, but in the two matchups during the regular season, Pau was a relative non-factor.
- Ariza, Brown, and Odom could be x-factors for the Lakers.
Should be an interesting series.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I haven't heard anyone say that Pau will have a proverbial "field day", but.........
He is probably the most consistent player I have ever seen. Some guys get 10pts 6rebounds one night then 30 points, 18 rebounds the next and average 20/12. Gasol just gets 20/12 almost every game. It seems to me the one place that the Lakers have been underestimated in each series has been the Gasol vs. (whomever) matchup. I am sure you guys have a similarly underestimated player, Rashard maybe?
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I've heard the comment (about Gasol) a few times on television, just browsing around.
Pau is definitely consistent, that’s for sure .. he’ll need to continue that against the Magic. But Gasol will need to improve on his regular season performances against Orlando during the regular season, which I’m sure he will. I know that he wants to make his impact in the triangle.
I don’t underestimate Pau, at all. He’s a fantastic player.
Lewis is underrated, which he doesn’t mind. Rashard always goes about his business.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Not saying who is better, but here is an interesting statistic....
Which player had a double double in all 6 games of the Conference Finals?
a. Dwight Howard
b. Pau Gasol
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
B. Dwight missed a double-double in 1 game, by 1 rebound
Second question: match the average stat line in the Conference Finals with the following four players: Andrew Bynum, Pau Gasol, Dwight Howard, Rashard Lewis:
A. 25.8 points, 13 rebounds per game
B. 17.5 points, 12.3 rebounds per game
C. 18.3 points, 5.8 rebounds per game
D. 7.8 points, 3.3 rebounds per game
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Yeah, Dwight missed out on that stat by 1 board in game 3...
…BUT he also had games with 18, 14 twice, and 13 boards and averaged 13 boards a game for the series. He also had a 40 pt and 30 pt game in the series as well…and that’s all while fouling out of 2 games!
ORLANDO MAGIC NBA FINALS BOUND!!!!!
LET'S GO MAGIC! LET'S GO!!!
apparently you missed the whole point of my post......
nice stat gathering though guys.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Thank you Captain Obvious....
The point wasn’t that Pau>Howard. That would be ridiculous. Actually considering their PER’s are very similar and Pau is the 2nd option on his team, not necessarily ridiculous, but whatever. The point is that most people would be surprised to know that Pau had a double double in each game of that series.
In other words I don’t think people are giving Pau his due. Not meant to take anything away from Howard.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Pau is a great player in his own right.
.. and certainly a key in the series.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
The Lee/Pietrus vs. Kobe matchup is very interesting
Kobe is a better shooter than Lebron, but he also takes more jump shots. The toughest part of that matchup for Orlando was Lebron would barrel into the lane constantly and Pietrus would be running to get out of his way and still get a whistle blown. He seemed to play his best D when Lebron was 20-25 feet away from the basket and MP was playing tight, aggresive on-the-ball defense. That should work better against the Lakers because Kobe doesn’t drive as much as Lebron. The drawback, like I said earlier, is that Kobe can knock down that jumper with more consistency.
by Lee for three on Jun 1, 2009 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, yeah. LeBron and Kobe are effective in different ways.
You alluded to some of those points.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Kobe vs. Lebron
Sorry guys but i must interject.
Kobe is much older, more seasoned and mature than Labron is. Kobe also, as a result, has had more time to focus and shape his game and how he contributes to the overall success of the team. Labron is still in the “I can do this all by myself” stage, and although he is extremely talented and scores almost too easily he must overcome this one man team mentality and help to make the players around him better. kobe has helped to make those around him better by exploiting his opponents double teams of him, and is able to capitalize with assist after assist. and if either lee or pietrus think they can guard Kobe Bryant all by their lonesome then they are in for a very rude awakening. But then again I do respect their bravery in guarding a player of his abilities one on one, it takes a strong man, mentally, to stand in front of a moving train and expect it to stop for him.
I don't know that Lebron is in the "I can do this all by myself" stage
it’s more of a “I have to do this all by myself stage” No one else on the Cavs stepped up in the ECF at all and if Lebron wasn’t playing out of his mind, the Magic would have swept in four uncompetitive games. It wasn’t that long ago that Kobe was on a team with absolutely no help, and as a result he was a bigger part of the offense. Now that he has more weapons, he has the luxury of relying on his teammates. Also, let’s not forget 2 years ago the knock on Lebron was that he was too unselfish…now he has the one-man team mentality?
As far as Lee and Pietrus guarding Kobe…both are very strong on the ball defenders. I’m not saying that they are going to hold him to 20 points a game, but if you think Bryant will have his way with them, it’s you who is in for the rude awakening.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know what "have his way with them" means exactly..........
but, yes, I do expect him to be as effective as he has been all playoffs. I don’t think he will put up 40 a game, but 30/6/6 is what I expect. In other words what he has been averaging roughly.
Funny, Kobe had his “I have to do this all by myself stage” (remember Kwame Brown, Brian Cook, Smush Parker, Luke Walton, etc. Yuck.) and he was just called “selfish”. I have NEVER heard Lebron called “selfish” for doing exactly the same thing. It’s the double standard that bothers Lakers/Kobe fans more than anything else.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Let's just drop the LeBron v. Kobe talk, please.
.. this isn’t the site for it.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
No offense, but why isn't this the site for it???
You just played Lebron, now you’re playing Kobe. I agree it is pointless, but if there was ever a time…………………..
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Because a.) the subject is so played out, it's ridiculous and ..
.. b.) the talk should center around the Magic and Lakers, not LeBron and the Cavaliers. That chapter has been dealt with and stored away. Time to move on.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I don't agree, because I think how you did in the last round against a superstar is probably relevant, but..............
I will agree to disagree. And you are right the subject is played out. The part that bothers me is this sort of thing:
“Hey man relax, don’t get all bent out of shape, Lebron is better, it doesn’t matter though”. Like the argument should end right after one person makes a completely arbitrary assertion.
LOL
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
That wasn't my intention, to dip out of the argument.
Just wanted to stray away from the talk in its entirety.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
fair enough.....
Me and Lee for three are talkin’ injuries now anyway. :-)
Wow me and Lee for three sounds really cool when you say it like that.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Cool, thanks for understanding.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Like .. I don't mind the conversation from a personnel perspective.
I know we’ve mentioned a few times the differences in matchups between LeBron and Kobe, but that’s really the extent that I’d like to talk about.
.. just to make myself clear with the issue.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Good point...........
there is a difference between matchups and who is better. However I hear (or read technically) a lot of people using the “who is better” argument in their “matchups”.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
True. I know I .. violated my own rule, in that regard.
I’ll go ahead and call myself out on that one. I did compare the two players from a skill-set perspective, but inserted my opinion in the issue.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Well I wouldn't jump off the bridge just yet.....
The truth is they are both between 95-99 on a scale of 1-100. Which one is higher? Who knows? I do think they are very different players though, which is why it is a bad idea to compare them from a match-up standpoint. To me Kobe is almost exactly like Jordan and Lebron is like a Magic, Dominique, Karl Malone hybrid.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I would agree that they're two different type of players.
Tough to compare ’em, in that sense. Sure.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Ha, ha, ha.
When I can get a moderator from a non Laker site to say the following:
“Let’s just drop the LeBron v. Kobe talk, please.”
My job is complete. Just kidding.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well, we're not like every other site out there.
.. there’s certainly better things to talk about.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I agree there is a huge double-standard
Although where I think it’s more prevalent is with Kobe and KG. KG yells at teammates (even makes one of them cry), gets down on all fours and barks and players, pretty much name your antic here, and he’s labeled as intense and a great leader. But Kobe is always called a bad teammate because he got pissed off that Luke Walton, Kwame Brown and Smush Parker were starters on his team.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Brian Cook too. Yeah they were that bad.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Haha I know
ESPN Classic had Game 6 of the Lakers-Suns series from ‘06 on and I was telling one of my buddies I can’t believe I had forgotten how bad the rest of that team was. To have Brown, Walton, Parker start and also have Cook and Deavan George playing key roles off the bench…it’s hard to believe they won 3 games in that series. Take Kobe off that 2006 team and they probably wouldn’t have cracked double-digit wins
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think Kobe was being selfish back then.
.. I mean, goodness, you just listed his supporting cast. Can you blame the guy?
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
No I cant, that's the double standard.
I don’t know your opinion obviously (except that you just gave it to me ^) but as a whole the fans and media have a double standard about their respective selfishness.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
nice one buddy. LOL
It just adds to the comment count. And that’s always a good thing.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
No, it's fine.
It’s an intriguing conversation to have.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I don't buy the LeBron "I can do all this by myself" mentality.
The dude had no choice. James was the best offensive and defensive player on the Cavaliers, and was forced to carry the team on his back because of the lack of consistent support.
I’m sorry, but LeBron is far from selfish.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Lakers vs. Magic
1. I think the match ups on defense and offense are pretty close, close enough that it will be decided on who has more heart, stamina, endurance then their opponent.
2. Yes, there some key match ups that favor one side or the other but can they maintain that intensity against an equal or better opponent for an entire series without causing that advantage to diminish?
3. Nobody seems to want to give any kind of credit to the coaches for some reason, these guys are the ones deciding strategy and such, on one side you have a hall of fame coach that’s on the verge of becoming the most successful coach in the history of the NBA Finals by winning more finals than any other coach. With that being said, a team CAN play perfectly to the strategy they choose and still lose, flawlessly even. I believe the western series was much more competitive, and from the Lakers standpoint has tempered them in such a fashion that they have grown, matured and exceeded their own boundaries as a direct result.
Lakers in 7
Thanks for the articulate and well-rounded thoughts.
I think we can all agree that it’ll be a competitive series.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
I do agree that coaching is incredibly important in the NBA playoffs
and it’s no coincidence that in both of the conference finals, the team with the better coach won.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Not according to the "coach of the year" voters. LOL
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
.. usually given to a coach that turned a team around or had the best record in the league.
That’s basically been the “criteria” used by the media, forever, it seems.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Vince Lombardi
yes he was a football coach. but the greatness of a leader is measured in the achievements of the lead. He took a team that in 1958 recorded the teams worst season in its history (before or since), its the only year the packers only won 1 game.
In his second season, with the same players from that 1958 team, he had them in the NFL world Championship game (before they called it the Superbowl) and came within less than 10 yards from achieving the title that year. he would take the title the next 2 consecutive years, then again 65, 66, 67. one of only 2 coaches to win 3 straight, Curly Lambough was the other (29, 30, 31) also with the Packers.
My point with this digression was simply this, Phil Jackson is the Vince Lombardi of Basketball. He took a nothing team and made it great. with not much more than what he started with.
Is Lambough the bastard child of Lambeau and Rush Limbaugh???
Just kidding, not playing the grammar/spelling police.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Yeah, pretty much.
Personally I would have given it to Van Gundy or George Karl. I understand the Mike Brown angle from the big increase in wins, but it seems like the “hey Lebron here is the ball, go win us another game” strategy is not too hard to come up with.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
oops, should have been under Lee for three.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
"hey Lebron here is the ball, go win us another game"
I couldn’t agree more. Yeah Brown got more wins than SVG but I think Van Gundy got a lot more out of his team…especially keeping them going when Jameer went down. The guy lives and dies on every possession. We could be up 20 with two minutes to go, but he’ll still get pissed on a defensive miscue or a turnover. It finally seems now that the team has finally realized that every possession does matter. You need to play for 48 minutes each night to win it all.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I love Dwights impersonation of Van Gundy, friggin' hilarious.
Of course in 2006 and 2007, Kobe was doing the same thing as Lebron. Of course with Kobe it was “sorry coach, no triangle, I will take the ball and win us another game”.
Another thing that pisses me off about the whole Lebron thing is that NO ONE said that he didn’t have a good “supporting cast” until they lost. Suddenly he is playing with a bunch of losers. Hypocrisy lives.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Personally
I wasn’t fully convinced that a team with guys like Wally Sczerbiak, Joe Smith, Andy Varejao and Daniel Gibson getting key minutes were world-beaters. I’ve also been strong in my stance that Mo Williams is not a guy you want to be your second scoring option.
But that’s all in the past. If you ask me…the best two all around TEAMS will be playing Thursday for the NBA Championship. I can’t wait to watch. Anyways, I’m getting out of here…nice chatting with you tonight. I look forward to getting your take on things as the series progresses.
by Lee for three on Jun 2, 2009 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
You too, see ya later.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
I notice from your profile that you're a Laker fan.........
but you’re not a member of Silver Screen and Roll. What is up with that? We need all the help we can get.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
well hurry up man, we need you....
Silver Screen and Roll just started 6 weeks ago so there aren’t a lot of us, but that won’t last long. Just need to get the word out. Great writers over there.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Sorry TQC, not trying to steal people here....
You guys have a great site too…
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
It's cool.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Every series is loaded with if's, but the Lakers biggest IF is their bench.
IF their bench plays good (even decent) they will be very, very tough to beat. They have played like crap all playoffs long. Their bench shot 34% so far in the playoffs. 34 fricken percent. That is crap.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Lakers Seek "REDEMPTION"… against the Magic? REALLY!!!
This is LONG; so PLEASE guys, hang in there with me.
I just read an absolutely absurd article on Yahoo By Rauter’s Mark Lamport-Stokes that really boiled my blood.
It seems that the Lakers, humiliated after losing last year’s NBA Finals to the Boston Celtics, are looking for "redemption", of all the blasted teams, against the Magic! Oh… what a nerve!!!
Redemption… let’s take a look at the word first.
The word has a profound spiritual meaning, referring to the "deliverance from sin through the incarnation and death of Christ"; "the act of absolving or remitting"; "the act of atoning" for a wrong, a sin. So, it’s closely associated with terms such as atonement, expiation and propitiation. A second, less used connotation in business deals, is related to the "act of purchasing back something previously sold", to make amends, to gain release of someone, or something.
As anyone can see, from a strictly religious viewpoint, the application of this term to a purely sporting endeavor is clearly blasphemous, to say the least!
But; let’s keep this up to see where it leads, just for the fun of it…
The Lakers are seeking REDEMPTION in this series… against the Magic. Kobe himself stated so. It’s a common term, used on a daily basis by the team, so they say.
The question that jumps to my mind, right off the bat is… REDEMPTION FROM WHAT?
Let’s see if I get this right: The Lakers want to redeem themselves; to atone, or gain release from, of all things, last years "humiliating" loss to the Boston Celtics. Truly; theirs MUST be the size of basketballs!
Of all the pompous, conceited, mellifluous little people! Entitlement surely runs DEEP in their veins for such arrogance to bubble up so publicly.
Let me count the ways…
This is the SAME Lakers team that has gone to 33 NBA Finals and actually won 14 Championships; 3 of them in a row… as recently as 2003! Put it into context and it’s even more obnoxious: From 2000 to 2009, the Lakers have been in the Finals FIVE times, winning THREE of those. Last year, they were beat by the best team money can buy; the Celtics.
To say that the Lakers are "entitled"; that they are somehow "overdue" is almost as blasphemous as it is ridiculous.
Now that you mention it… they DO sound a LOT like their Eastern, petulant cousins, the Boston Celtics.
Of course, arrogance has a way of striking back, right in the groin area where it REALLY hurts, so the Few and the Proud Celtics and their similar Eastern brethren, the Cleveland Cavaliers were humbled this time around by the lowly, relentlessly unappreciated, but ALWAYS engaging and truly refreshing Orlando Magic.
Now, THEIR story is short; their achievements even shorter: One NBA Finals appearance; NO Championships, NO row of banners to grace their Arena.
Oh… I’m afraid the Lakers are RIPE for a REAL butt-whipping, starting with a truly "humiliating" 10-point loss in game 1.
Yes! There IS justice and there IS redemption… for those that deserve it.
Go Magic!
I don't see how the Lakers are arrogant for wanting to make up for the Finals performance last year.
The opponent is irrelevant .. L.A. wants to redeem themselves, period. That’s not a slight on Orlando. Can’t treat everything like it’s "me against the world". Can’t make a story out of nothing. I don’t think the Lake Show is ripe for a butt-whipping, either. It’ll be a competitive series between two excellent teams.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
He's just looking for locker room material..............or rather fridge material.
Can’t blame him for that. I do find it interesting how people turn a slight by the media into a disrespect or overconfidence by the team though. I haven’t heard the Lakers (or any other team) be overconfident, disrespectful or act like they have a sense of entitlement yet in these playoffs. The media on the other hand does it on a daily basis.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Well, yeah .. the media always goes out of its way to blow things out of proportion.
It’s occurred with the Orlando Magic throughout the season and postseason, so I can sympathize.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Who is being arrogant?
“Of course, arrogance has a way of striking back, right in the groin area where it REALLY hurts”
The Lakers or the media? I think you are mixing the two up.
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
You're right that was long
Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!.......Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend. – Will Munny
Very.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Fair enough…
It’s natural to try to make amends for a defeat; and I’m not saying that the Magic will sweep the series… not even close. It will be tough; it will be close (for the most part), and Kobe WILL score his 30-35 points/game.
That’s NOT what the article is about.
It’s about the absurd application of a word (redemption) to a completely inappropriate setting, and the elitist vibes it radiates.
As for the "me against the world": Read the sports columns, blogs, etc… They have framed it so. I’m just reacting.
Gotcha.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
Defenition of Redemption
Your research is a little incomplete. Yes the word redemption is used in theology and financial settings, however that is not its sole application. Below i have listed the definitions of both redemption and redeem. I have put in bold lettering those that apply to the CONTEXT of the article which also does not have a Religious connotation to its description.
re⋅demp⋅tion
/rɪˈdɛmpʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-demp-shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. an act of redeeming or the state of being redeemed.
2. deliverance; rescue.
3. Theology. deliverance from sin; salvation.
4. atonement for guilt.
5. repurchase, as of something sold.
6. paying off, as of a mortgage, bond, or note.
7. recovery by payment, as of something pledged.
8. conversion of paper money into specie.
re⋅deem
/rɪˈdim/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-deem] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to buy or pay off; clear by payment: to redeem a mortgage.
2. to buy back, as after a tax sale or a mortgage foreclosure.
3. to recover (something pledged or mortgaged) by payment or other satisfaction: to redeem a pawned watch.
4. to exchange (bonds, trading stamps, etc.) for money or goods.
5. to convert (paper money) into specie.
6. to discharge or fulfill (a pledge, promise, etc.).
7. to make up for; make amends for; offset (some fault, shortcoming, etc.): His bravery redeemed his youthful idleness.
8. to obtain the release or restoration of, as from captivity, by paying a ransom.
9. Theology. to deliver from sin and its consequences by means of a sacrifice offered for the sinner.
.. and there it is.
Our discussion has turned to debating the merits of the context and use of the word, redemption.
Amazing.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone
His entire rant was about that word
he went on and on about it and all because he made false assumptions about the definition of a word
It's cool, I was just joking around. Nothing more.
I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.
"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

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