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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Boston Celtics 95, Orlando Magic 94: The Morning After

  • Brian Schmitz notes that head coach Stan Van Gundy blamed himself for the way the Magic defended the last play. Interesting words from the ol' coach:
    "My coaching decision at the end got us beat. They did what they were supposed to do. That was on me," he said, refusing to go into detail. "Our guys played it exactly right ... that's not to take away anything from them. They had to have the patience to go to their last option.

    "The only guy who made a mistake on the last play was me."

    Davis was open on the play as the Magic covered Pierce and Allen, and Pierce fired him the pass. The Celtics still have a lot of weapons without Garnett. The only hint that Van Gundy gave about the telling play was when he said, "We might have been able to take everything away."
  • Mike Bianchi states that Orlando blew a critical chance to put Boston, the defending champs, down 3-1 in the series in the team's loss last night:
    Now the Magic have gone and done it.

They had them down. They had home-court advantage. They had the defending heavyweight champions on their backs with the ref standing over them counting them out.



    And they let them back up.


    They let Glen "Big Baby" Davis hit a shot at the buzzer and, suddenly, the tired, injury-depleted Celtics have been revived and resuscitated.
  • Kyle Hightower states that the Magic guards struggled in Game 4.
  • Tim Povtak reveals why Courtney Lee didn't start in yesterday's matchup ..
    Lee is Orlando's best perimeter defender. He missed three consecutive games after surgery to repair a fractured sinus and returned Friday in a reserve role, looking like he never missed a beat, except for the mask he was wearing to protect his face. And normally, he would be put back in the starting lineup where he belongs.

    But House is scaring the Magic, and with good reason. House, who plays in reserve for the Celtics, has shot 73 percent (19 of 26) from the field and 75 percent (9 of 12) from 3-point range in this series.

    Because of House, the Magic Sunday night stuck with J.J. Redick starting against Ray Allen, holding back Lee to make sure he was in the game against House.

    "We didn't want to be in a situation where Courtney was going to the bench, or having to be on the bench when Eddie is coming into the game," said Van Gundy an hour before the start of Game 4. "He is still on our mind. The guy with the best chance of keeping up with him is Courtney."

    .. and provides his post-game assessment of Boston's win over Orlando.

  • Chris Sheridan of ESPN.com thinks that Stan Van Gundy may want to consider tinkering with the starting lineup in Game 5 versus the Celtics:
    Howard (23 points, 17 rebounds) and Rashard Lewis (22 points) carried the offense and the Magic bench contributed 31 points, but Orlando didn't attack the basket with the same vigor it had in Game 3 and launched 27 3-point shots, making only five. Starting guards Rafer Alston and J.J. Redick both shot 1-for -7, highlighting the vast difference in production each team is getting from its starting guards. Alston was benched for the entire fourth quarter and Redick played only 2:50, with coach Stan Van Gundy placing his trust in Hedo Turkoglu to take care of most of the ball handling and Courtney Lee to be the guard option when Orlando couldn't get the ball to its bigs in position to score.

    Now, Van Gundy has to think long and hard about whether it is time to make wholesale changes to his starting backcourt, possibly moving Game 3 starter Anthony Johnson ahead of Alston at the point, and also re-inserting Lee into the same starting role he held until Howard elbowed him in the nose during Game 5 of the first round, fracturing Lee's sinus and knocking him out for three games.

    I'd have to agree with Sheridan. After the game was over, I was trying to figure out what personnel moves are needed to be made if the Magic want to beat the Celtics on the road tomorrow. Later today, I'll make a post highlighting the lineup and rotation SVG should consider using in Game 5.

  • Matt Moore of Hardwood Paroxysm elaborates on a number of things pertaining to last night's game:
    There are two ways to look at this. Either this Boston Celtics team possesses a greatness that cannot be defined, that just finds a way to win, that never gets up and will always get big contributions from role players, and has juevos of titanium steel alloy, or ...

    The Orlando Magic gave this one away, and there’s no way what occurs tonight is repeated, the Magic have way too much ammo, and this was the Celtics last night in victory.

    I lean towards the latter. [...]

    SVG gets this loss. No question. He buried this team. He overplayed Rafer Alston, who somehow managed to miss runners, jumpers, three pointers, one handers, two handers, gimmes, tough shots, and granny shots. Yet SVG kept going to him. At what point is SVG going to realize that his best chance to win is Lee, Hedo, Lewis, Gortat and Howard? He lets the Boston bigs double team Howard, then refuses to give Gortat the chance to play cleanup man. He watches Alston kill possessions, with the Celtics giving him shots and him still missing, and yet sticks with him over Anthony Johnson. The pride of coaches in the playoffs just floors me. This one is on you, Stan Van Gundy.

    The Magic have all the pieces of a killer ultra-long, hyper-athletic lineup. Then SVG gets involved and we get Alston-Pietrus-Hedo-Battie-Howard/Gortat lineups. If SVG can learn to harness what’s referred to in some circles as "playing the talented players" then they can win this thing. If he sticks to his guns, the Magic are going home and Boston will lose to Cleveland in 2.5 games. Glen Davis will not be getting that shot versus Cleveland’s D.

    I will say that Stan Van Gundy was "off" his game yesterday. Usually you'll hear players have 'off-nights' but rarely you'll hear the expression used for coaches. In any case, SVG certainly had an 'off-night' .. for his standards. 

  • Kelly Dwyer of Ball Don't Lie chimes in with his thoughts on Game 4:
    Rafer Alston made some horrible decisions with the ball, and someone needs to get a restraining order that could help separate Dwight Howard and Patrick Ewing. Dwight just has no moves despite a running lefty toss, or that turnaround banked-in jumper that the defense always sees coming, and always beats him to the spot on.
  • UPDATE: Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus discusses yesterday's proceedings between the Magic and the Celtics:
    The difference between the Celtics heading home tied at 2-2 or down 3-1 is enormous. According to WhoWins.com, teams in the latter scenario (excluding the NBA Finals and its 2-3-2 format) have won six out of 47 series, a 12.8 percent rate. Instead, with Davis's shot splashing through, Boston regained home-court advantage and is again (mathematically) the favorite in this series. That's potentially the difference between winning and losing a series.

    Of course, there was plenty that played out over the previous 47 minutes and 49 seconds before the final possession. ESPN.com's John Hollinger wrote Monday about Orlando's ability to win even when its three-pointers weren't falling, and the Magic came ever so close to proving that true in dramatic fashion. Orlando was a dismal 5-for-27 from beyond the arc, the sixth time all season the Magic has failed to hit 20 percent of its three attempts. Nobody could find the mark; J.J. Redick missed all five of his tries, Mickael Pietrus was 1-for-5 and Rafer Alston 1-for-6.

    From an academic perspective, it's impressive how well Orlando played even without the three going. From a fan's perspective, it must have been agonizing watching the Magic continue to hoist three after three. The looks weren't bad per se, but Orlando was able to get to the free-throw line 28 times when it got the ball inside. Besides Dwight Howard (23 points and 17 rebounds), that meant more post-ups for Rashard Lewis, who had 22 points on 8-for-14 shooting despite the Celtics doing a better job of taking away the looks that opened up for the Magic's centers in Game Three when the help defender came to double Lewis. [...]

    On the Orlando side, the interesting strategic decision for Stan Van Gundy is at point guard. Down the stretch, the Magic went with Turkoglu as their de facto point and had Lee in the game to defend Rondo. That was the pairing that was so successful for Orlando in Game Three, and with Alston playing poorly in this series (five points and two assists on 1-for-7 shooting in 27 minutes last night), I'd expect to see more of it in Game Five. One way or another, it would be a shame for Lee to see just 23 minutes of action again. Assuming there aren't lingering medical issues, his play at both ends demands he be on the floor, if not in place of Alston then for Redick, who was unable to find his shot last night, at shooting guard.

    The Magic also can't forget about Lewis, their most consistently successful offensive option besides Howard in this series. Lewis used just two possessions in the final six minutes, and that's not enough given the matchup problems he creates for the Celtics.
  • UPDATE 2: Henry Abbott of TrueHoop shows (via the NBA's Hot Spots feature) the statistical odds that Glen Davis makes his game-winning shot:
    According to NBA.com's hot spots feature, during the regular season this year Davis took 249 shots that were not at the hoop. He missed 154 of them, to finish a dismal 38% shooting from any kind of distance at all.

    If you're Stan Van Gundy, watching the ball come off Davis' fingertips, that might have felt a little like the Cetlics had just a 38% chance of winning the game, which would normally be viewed as a good sign for Orlando.

    But the ball splashed in, and the Celtics changed everything by tying the series.

    It's worth pointing out that even though Davis is essentially an abysmal shooter from every spot that isn't at the rim, there is one exception: long 2s from the left side. From that particular area, he made 23 of 45 shots this season -- to make him a 51% shooter. That's 17% better than his rate of all other longer shots.

    That's the only part of the floor where Davis's jump shots are, in fact, likely to go in

    Is it a coincidence that he shot the game-winner from precisely there?

    Not likely.
  • UPDATE 3: Brian Schmitz adds that Jameer Nelson's absence is hurting the Magic; a fact that the media isn't really talking about according to him:
    Coach Stan Van Gundy should go with Anthony Johnson and bring Alston off the bench, but that's doubtful. He doesn't like changing his rotation, and there's no telling how Alston will react to the demotion.

    But are you trying to win a title or not?

    (If Van Gundy isn't going to sit Alston, he must put Courtney Lee back into the lineup for J.J. Redick, just to give the backcourt some punch.)

    There's always talk about the Celtics missing Kevin Garnett. So much so that Coach Doc Rivers instituted a no-KG discussion rule with the media.

    But seldom does anybody mention the loss of Magic all-star point guard Jameer Nelson, who was sidelined for the season in February.

    He's not KG, obviously, but he means so much to the Magic that at times he's their second-best player.

    Nelson's scoring and shooting ability alone would have been enough for them to win Game 4, go ahead 3-1 and likely dismiss the Celtics to advance to theri first East finals since 1996.

    You knew that at some point Nelson's absence would haunt.

    Just as the Celtics aren't at full strength, neither are the Magic.

    The difference is that Boston is getting better play from Garnett's replacement -- Big Baby Davis, who hit the game-winner Sunday.

    Nelson's stand-in, as he'll tell you himself, is not doing anything at all.
  • UPDATE 5: The Celtics' celebration may fuel the Magic in Game 5:
    The Orlando Magic apparently didn't appreciate the celebration by the Boston Celtics after Glen "Big Baby'' Davis knocked down a 21-foot jumper to win Game 4, according to the Boston Globe.

    "It most definitely adds fuel to the fire," Orlando's Rashard Lewis said. "We don't like that type of stuff. You have to be professional about the game of basketball. We're a professional team and we expect them to be the same way."

    "Those guys were jumping up and down, waving their hands at us, saying bye, but it's not over yet; it's just 2-2," Lewis said. "We could have done the same thing when we won on their court, but we're more professional than that. They still have to win ballgames. The series ain't over yet."
  • For a Celtics perspective on Game 4, check out CelticsBlog and Celtics Hub.

Make sure to check out this post every few hours for updates. 

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You can’t possibly want Johnson to start. I know Rafer had a horrible night, but lets remember what it was like before he got here. Johnson does a fine job in the reserve pg spot, but the team’s flow fall apart when he starts. There is a reason why he was voted most dissapointing player on this site midway through the season. Starting Johnson is showing weakness in my mind. Rafer will bounce back, he will.

Oh and, my bad guy.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 1:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Can't agree with you there.

I think you need to take into account the fact that Johnson is effective when he gets 20-25 minutes. Anything more and yeah, the team’s flow falls apart .. sure. That’s more so because A.J. wears down.

Look, I like Rafer .. I think he’s been an asset since his arrival but he’s killing the team right now. At some point, Stan Van Gundy needs to do what’s best for the team and go with the most effective player for right now. I’m not advocating benching Alston permanently, but I am advocating a quick fix to the problem.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get you, but I think it's a mistake

You are showing your hand by benching Rafer for this series. It kills his pride and puts a target on his back. Basketball is all about matchups and Rondo vs. Alston is bad for us, I get it. Rondo’s length and similar speed makes him one of the worst matchups for us. With that said, you gotta go with the best starting five you got. Alston, Lee, Turk, Lewis, Howard.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Magic need to win ..

.. you can’t go with the regular starting five and hope the team wakes up. That’s too risky. Like I said, I like Rafer but when push comes the shove, you need to go with the quick fix at this time.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Rafer has it in him to get the job done.....

but if he is not up to par SVG. needs to make a move. There are other options, A.J. and Lee has proven to be effective. So i agree. Time is of the essence. Let’s get er done. Maybe start him out see if he is on his game if not bring out the hook.

The Surfdog

by Surfdog on May 11, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you start him, he better have a quick freakin' leash.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes Alston has played poorly in this series

But let’s not forget we wouldn’t be here without him. We got a quick wake up call against New Orleans that Anthony Johnson is not the solution as the full-time starting PG. Without acquiring Skip I don’t see this team finishing the season with as good of a record as they did and maybe could have been bounced in the first round. That said, I agree he needs to have a short leash. But then again, in do-or-die games, I think that applies to most players.

by Lee for three on May 11, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is one case where I think stats go too far.

“Boston has never lost a game 7 at home on a Sunday.” What does the fact that it’s Sunday have to do with anything? Are they more beatable on a Saturday or a Monday? I don’t buy into huge trends like that because they span different coaching eras, different player lineups, etc.

The thing that is concerning is that this current Boston team is 3-0 in Game 7’s. But this Magic team is better than the three previous game 7 matchups for the Celtics, so I’d give us the best shot to buck the trend.

But I said Magic in 6 before the series started and I’m sticking with that. I was reading on CelticsBlog some comments from Lewis about how the Celtics celebration didn’t sit well with the team. As sad as it’s been, this is a team that needs extra motivation to get up for games, and they may have just got it.

by Lee for three on May 11, 2009 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Absolutely agreed, if stats like these were relevenat in the playoffs we should have lost to Philly in the first round.

We also should beat Boston in this series after winning game 3. All these stats are thrown out the window in the playoffs IMO. What do the stats show for a team playing in a game 7 that were taken to game 7 the previous series which included 7 overtimes? LOL, I don’t even want to know, I’m sure there is a stat for it.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

All I can say is that stats or trends need to be taken into context.

.. Orlando was the better team than Philadelphia, so .. can’t really look into the 2-1 series trend too much for that simple fact. Same can be said in this series. The Magic were up 2-1 but this is a series that’s truly a toss-up, so can’t really look into the 2-1 series trend too much for that simple fact, either.

However, in my opinion, it’s absolutely relevant that Boston is unbeaten in Game 7’s on Sunday. Why? Because if Orlando takes the series to seven games, that’s what they’re up against. Will it matter if it comes to that point? Well, that’s why they play the games but I’ve said it all along, I can’t see the Magic beating the Celtics in Game 7. I just can’t see it, not with the type of home court advantage the C’s have when the stakes are at their highest. That’s something that can’t be ignored.

Just my .02 cents.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that we'd lose a game seven in Boston, but not because of the fact that the Boston Celtics have never lost a home game 7 on a sunday...

How many Sunday home game 7s has this group even played? 2? Both from last year? Obviously they have a magnificent history and must have played in a bunch of Sunday home game 7s over their franchise’s history, but I don’t see why a stat composed greatly of teams from the 70s and 80s should be used as a prominent factor here? It’s a fun and interesting stat, but I don’t take it for much more than that.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the trend is relevant. That's just me, though.

Not because of the disparity in eras (which is a valid point), but because of what the team is up against in general.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't get me wrong, I think a game 7 in Boston would be incredibly tough to win

They have a great homecourt advantage and the experience in that situation. I was mainly pointing out the whole “on Sunday” part of it. I don’t think a Game 7 would be any tougher on Sunday than it would Saturday, even if the Celtics have a worse Game 7 record on Saturday.

by Lee for three on May 11, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stan is the Man

But he needs to play that lineup mentioned with Hedo/Lee/Lewis/Gortat/Howard. That is a nightmare of a lineup for Boston to have to deal with, uses our best players all at once, and is a matchup nightmare for Boston. Stan needs to pull his head out of his ass and play the damn thing.

'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12

by Eyriq the Red on May 11, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Might as well try .. SVG needs to pull out all the stops in Game 5.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we play them both at the same time it means increased minutes for Battie & Foyle.

The way they’ve been playing this series, I don’t think SVG would be so inclined to disrupt the standard playing time.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see how its increased minutes for Battie and Foyle.

.. if you play that lineup, it’s not to start.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gortat got extended minutes yesterday when Dwight picked up an early two.

Because Gortat got extra minutes, Foyle got minutes, in the FIRST HALF. It’s simple, if Dwight + Gortat both play extended minutes opposed to just Dwight, with Gortat offering the blow, they’ll both need a blow here and there, enter Battie and Foyle as we saw last night.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Extended minutes? The dude played 9 minutes last night.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Foyle was in the game because Gortat got into foul trouble.

SVG had no choice .. Howard had 2 fouls and Gortat had 3 fouls in the first quarter.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah ok, so I was wrong about the extended minutes.

Same theory applies to foul trouble however. We’ll see.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true. That's an external factor, though, that can be controlled.

Like I said, if Gortat and Howard are paired together, the only way Battie or Foyle see any minutes whatsoever is if either big man is in foul trouble.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like that lineup

But I don’t think it gives us much of an advantage here. Who guards Ray Allen? Turk? I don’t think so.

Against Cleveland, I would have to agree with you. Lebron struggles (for his standards) when you put two bigs on the floor.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The lineup doesn't make sense against Boston.

.. clearly a Gortat/Howard combo is a stout pair defensively, but the Celtics don’t operate from the inside. The C’s get most of their points from the perimeter, whether it’s Allen, Pierce, etc.

Lee/Pietrus/Turkoglu/Lewis/Howard is the best lineup SVG can throw at ’em, in this series.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It should be used for defensive purposes only.

.. but I wouldn’t mind seeing it, though.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the twin tower, make them adjust to us.. If we are killing them on the boards, especially offensive, Boston would be in trouble.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on May 11, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't use it a lot, though.

Gortat and Howard can’t really co-exist offensively, which is a problem.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see why not

All Gortat does is screen and roll.

It works if D Howard does what he is supposed to get in the low block and get busy..

It would be nice to have Peitrus and Turk off the bench with scoring.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on May 11, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thing is, Dwight can't be effective on the low block.

Not against Perkins.

I’m really beating a dead horse here, but SVG needs to run more pick & rolls for Howard. The coach does it for Gortat and it works .. offense is more effective, too.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s hard to change the game plan this far down the road. Dwight is doing what feels natural to him and SVG is letting him do work. I agree that a different approach is needed against Perk, I just don’t think it’s gonna happen.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

spacing would really be my concern

if gortat is used in high pick and rolls and plays primarily on the wings he might be effective…but i’d be careful not to crowd the lane.

could really stifle the inside out drive and kick game also making it even tougher for turkoglu to drive to the basket.

by radja9697 on May 11, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the main issue, spacing.

Head coach Stan Van Gundy values spacing on offense .. that’s why the Magic are so good at what they do offensively. Having Gortat paired with Howard works defensively, not so much offensively due to some of the things you alluded to.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

But not to start. Keep Rafer in the starting rotation and see how well Pietrus plays. If he’s stretching the floor while making buckets, he needs to close. If he plays eratic on offense and looks lost on defense, go with Rafer or JJ (whoever is playing better).

Either way, I think it’s clear that we give Boston fits when Hedo is bringing the ball up the court. Boston, like most teams, get a little thrown off by the point foward.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think any team gets thrown off with point forwards.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Hedo guarding Ray and Pierce guarding Lewis would be tough matchups for Orlando. Plus, it’d allow Boston to crowd the lane defensively.

SVG used the Gortat/Howard pair vs. Boston for some minutes in one of the reg. season games though.

by cordobes on May 11, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

I think Rafer’s play has been below avg., he isn’t shooting well, he isn’t finishing well around the basket, and he isn’t creating easy shots for his teammates.

Stat line in the boston series..
6 pts, 4 assist, 2 turnovers, 24% fg, and 8% from the 3 point line..

He has to come out of the starting line-up.

RAFER STATS

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on May 11, 2009 1:46 PM EDT reply actions  

He's been awful against Boston, to say the least.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hate to bring this up again but...

How does Rondo end up getting all these rebounds. Had 14 rebs. He outrebounded everybody except Howard who had 17. I know he has long arms but he is still a little guy. We need to do a better job on the boards. Maybe Gortat & Howard should see some time.

The Surfdog

by Surfdog on May 11, 2009 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, that's inexcusable.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the lineup

for two reasons, more rebounding and less 3’s.

I think Rondo is athletic gifted, he can jump, and PG’s are not used to boxing out another PG. Rondo’s ability to rebound is very rare.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on May 11, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

It just doesn't make sense against this team

A twin tower lineup will cause them to shoot more jumpers, but, as rivera said, that is their game anyway. Davis can stretch the floor, House prefers to stay outside, and so on.

I like the idea against Cleveland, just not this team.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The lineup is simple...

Hedo, Lee, Pietrus, Shard, Howard.

No question about it, this is our best offensive lineup, not to mentions great defensively. Allen and Rondo/House will be shut down by Lee and Pietrus.

by TragicMatt on May 11, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions  

It's probably the best lineup both ways, actually.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that five should close

but it all depends on what Pietrus is bringing.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

not for long though

Hedo can play the point for a quarter but for a longer span of time he is prone to turnovers and bad decisions. I think how the game goes also effects his performance at the point. If the Magic is comfortable scorewise, he will be relaxed and play good but if the Magic is coming from behind I’d prefer him touching the ball as the 2nd or 3rd person during the offense. I didn’t watch sufficient number of Magic games in full this season to come to this conclusion but I always felt like this is the key to his performance at the point.

by pembeci on May 11, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hedo does wear down with extended time playing point forward.

The key with Turkoglu is using him in short spurts here and there.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Abbott makes a solid point

But it reminds me of what Rivera said in the game 1 thread. Davis made a shot from the same distance but from teh top of the key and he said something along the lines of, “yeah, he makes that shot now.”

With that said, I’ll give you credit for your scouting report Rivera. It is clear you did not knock on wood after you made that comment, therefore last night’s loss is your fault.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions  

LOL.

.. I’ll go ahead and offer myself as the sacrificial lamb for last night’s loss.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or it could be my fault as I didn't comment in the game-thread during the game.

Then again, I didn’t for game 3 either and we won convincingly. I guess I’m off the hook.

"Shoot first, ask questions last" Rafer Alston

by DieSlowKeyshawn on May 11, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hah. Guess so.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't really understand why lewis

is using the celebrating as a motivation factor…is that all orlando has? i mean i watched hedo do his nut shake last year on the 3 that beat boston…i watched him pop his orlando jersey when he beat philly this playoffs…i saw alston cheap shot house…so why is lewis all lathered up?

as for the lineup….start lee sit redick….peitrus either looks good or looks bad..he is a big risk

by celticinorlando on May 11, 2009 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Pietrus has problems with inconsistency, yeah.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

he played great in games 1 and good last night

but struggled vs a smaller house in game 2…lee needs to be on the court the entire game…period.

by celticinorlando on May 11, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, Lee will start in Game 5. That's a guarantee.

Pietrus will come off the bench and relieve Lee & Turkoglu, when necessary.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lew doesn't have a problem with Davis celebrating, no one does.

I think he was talking about Davis yelling and cursing at the fans, and taunting the Magic bench. No need for it. Makes him look like a d-bag.

by pjlawrence81 on May 11, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how popping out the the jersey

is comparable to barrelling over a kid and swearing towards the fans/bench.

The Celtics are the defending Champs. Act like you’ve been there before.

What a horrible demonstration.

by The Stan 'Stache on May 11, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

lets be real here...

if you look at davis running back up the sideline he is looking downcourt and doesn’t even see the kid.

mountains out of molehills.

by radja9697 on May 11, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

still stupid

He hit the kid with such force that his baseball cap flew off his head. And he also ran over the ref. Somehow, if it were the other way around, I’m pretty sure Davis would be apologizing his ass off right now to the ref.

I'm a girl.

by TheGiantSquid on May 11, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was classless

But what do you expect from this team? It wasn’t the first time and it won’t be the last. This is just the way the Celtics like to handle things. I don’t blame Lewis for trying to turn this into a rallying call.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

.. to be honest, it's disappointing it takes this type of action for the Magic to be motivated.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I highly doubt this is what it takes

It’s just Lewis firing back without trash talking.

Jon Barry is not that bad.

by magic fanatic on May 11, 2009 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It better not be, for the team's sake.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

On Davis' accuracy on jump-shots

Abbott has the numbers, but as magic fanatic says, erivera7 was spot on: Davis makes that shot now. He was terrible by the start of the season, so the the overall stats for the season are skewed.

Steve Weinman writes about the issue of Davis’ jumper at the CB:


Early this season, there was hardly a shot I wanted to see less from the Celtics than Big Baby Davis shooting a mid-range jumper (save for perhaps Perk from 40 feet). He came out shooting to start the 2008-09 campaign and shooting badly at that. At one particularly low point before the turn of the calendar, Davis had posted an effective field goal mark of less than 24 percent on his jumpers for the season. I complained that he was forcing shots that he didn’t need to be taking on this team and was hurting the productivity of the bench in the process.

Oh, what little I knew about what was to come.

So yeah, in the past few months Davis has been a solid mid-range jump-shooter. He did a great job developing that aspect of his game.

by cordobes on May 11, 2009 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, Davis deserves credit for working on his game.

No doubt about it.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was surprised that Orlando lost the game.

Aren’t you, Eddy?

I thought that after their decisive win in Game 3 the Magic would win again, maybe not in a blowout but would still pull out a solid victory. I did not expect the poor shooting and the inability to just grab the win when the Celtics were basically trying to give away the game in at the end. Orlando could have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat.

The ending was shocking. I never expected Big Baby to be the one to shoot a buzzer-beating jumper to win the game. Incredible. But why would Stan Van Gundy blame himself for the last play? He put his players in position and they did their job. Davis just made the shot; it happens.

They let Glen “Big Baby” Davis hit a shot at the buzzer and, suddenly, the tired, injury-depleted Celtics have been revived and resuscitated.

Bianchi is right about that. I thought before Game 4 that the Celts were on the verge of collapse. All Orlando had to do was to give them a hard push and the Celts would have fallen over. The Bulls almost did it in the first round. Now Boston has momentum and Orlando’s deflated.

By the way, who’s Matt Moore? I don’t think he’s either a Celtics or Magic fan, although I sense that he doesn’t like the Celtics.

I agree with Schmitz. If Nelson had played in Game 4, Orlando would have won.

As for Lewis not liking the celebration, he needs to get over and just win 2 out of the next 3 games. It’s a simple as that. If the Magic can do it, then he’ll watch the Celts cry instead. Orlando should have defended its homecourt and it wouldn’t have been an issue.

by LibNat on May 11, 2009 11:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Surprised? No, not really.

.. I expected Boston to come out and play. I was curious to see if Orlando would do the same. The Magic came out with energy but the team didn’t execute until the tail end of the game, which almost worked.

Matt Moore is a writer for Hardwood Paroxysm, a neat site that’s been around for a while now.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 11, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Magic don't make it easy

It seems that whenever they are on top, they have to fall backwards.

Remember when the Magic actually were #2 in the Eastern Conference standings? They then lost to the Celtics instead of holding on to it. What about letting Philly win 2 out of the first 3 games when Orlando’s the 3rd seed.

They should just play up to their potential and they win.

What NBA team does Moore root for?

by LibNat on May 12, 2009 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure what team he roots for.

That’s a good question.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"Never hate your enemies. It affects your judgement." - Michael Corleone

by erivera7 on May 12, 2009 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

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