Amar'e Trade: Part II

by FLYNN47 on Feb 8, 2009 7:51 AM EST Comment 34 comments

ESPN is reporting that the Suns are looking to hit the 'Rebuild Button', and sitting atop the list of clearance items, is Amar'e Stoudemire and Shaq.

At the following link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=amaredealscenario-090207) you can see some scenarios that Chad Ford believes could have some chance of prying 'Black Jesus' from the Suns. One in particular that made me think was:

Jeff Green, Joe Smith and Desmond Mason from the Thunder in a 3 for 1 deal for STAT...

It got me thinking 'surely the Magic could put together a more 'attractive' deal for the Suns than that?

Such as....Hedo, Cook, Redick for Amare. the salaries match (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1727~1998~3024~862&teams=19~21~21~21&te=&cash=)

Thoughts?

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Count Me Out

Yeah, it fun to specualte about trades and all, but why in the hell would the Magic take in that salary, how can the Magic take on that salary, and given the current construction of the team isn’t Hedo more important than Amare would ever be? Stoudemire would demand shots, Hedo makes his own.

Also…..Amare doesn’t defend, is a prima dona, is marginally overrated, probably could not be resigned when his contract is up, and while Steve Kerr is not a good GM but I doubt that either trade you outline would be enough to swing Amare.

Do no harm!!

by Brutalfacts on Feb 8, 2009 8:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Magic don't need to make that drastic a move, if any

I dunno if there’s room for both Dwight and Amar’e on this team.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Ben Q Rock on Feb 8, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Theoretically, no .. they'd get into each other's way on offense.

Amare is at his best when he has the entire paint to operate. The Magic would have the same problems on offense as the Suns do currently.

Though even then I’m skeptical about that because Amare was a monster last season after the Shaq trade was made. He avg. 29.3 PPG in February, 25.8 PPG in March. Granted, O’Neal wasn’t playing as well last year as he was this year so .. things have changed. For Amare, I really think it’s just a lack of effort out there. If he wanted to, he could still put up those numbers as he did last season with Shaq but it’s clear he doesn’t want to for whatever reason.

I know I toyed with a similar trade a little over a week ago, but circumstances have changed. Jameer is hurt, and so Hedo is more valuable now to Orlando than before. So I’d say no to the trade.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 8, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think he may have a little ‘VC- Get me outta Toronto’ attitude going?

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 8, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, definitely. I think that's been very apparent.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 8, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

D Howard is a low block player and Amare plays more around the top of the key..

It would be a great move

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Feb 8, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, Amare has a more perimeter-oriented game than Dwight but ..

.. he needs the paint for himself to maximize his offensive output. Hence the problem currently occurring in Phoenix with Amare & Shaq.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 8, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess thats what i saw in this trade..

Sort of what Toronto were trying to do with Bosh and O’Neil.

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 8, 2009 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and we all have seen how that's worked out

by AB's triple double on Feb 9, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, rarely does pairing two bigs work.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 9, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But hasn’t a huge part of that fail been Jermaine ‘The Drain’s’ injuries?

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 9, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but even when he was playing, he wasn't really effective.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 9, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I am with you..

I think that trade would be the deal..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Feb 9, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As dumb as this might sound...

Chris Bosh?

by Jaceman on Feb 9, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't see that deal happening. It'd be nice, though.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 9, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but it can't be denied that Dwight Howard needs a rebounding big next to him...

Maybe not a marquee name like Amar’e. Though I’d be inclined to believe that Howard and STAT are both talented enough to make things work. The ideal 2 big man pairing brings us back to the heyday of the 2 Towers, Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Two players that arguably had similar games, but were dynamic enough to work around each other. Granted, Robinson ceded to Duncan most of the time, in a way that likely Howard nor STAT would cede to each other.

I think another approach might be to try to get an upgrade at 2 and a serviceable Udonis Haslem like hustle player? Or depth. Ideally I’d want an Udonis Haslem/David Lee/Nick Collison type of guy in the lineup (I mean, if I could get anyone it’d be KG or Tim Duncan, but I’m trying to be semi-realistic here). As much as I love Hedo, I don’t know that he’d be worth the major contract. That’s my personal take.

by Jaceman on Feb 9, 2009 1:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hedo is worth some money .. is he worth possibly $10 Mill./year? No.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 9, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I completely agree with you

the Twin Towers thing is the perfect example, but to delve further into this, we HAVE NOT seen what Rashard Lewis can do as a 3. Plain and simple, you can’t tell me he won’t improve in every facet of the game if he played his natural position. Case in point? Lebron James. Sure he COULD play the 4, and hell, he even has the body to do so…but why don’t they do it? Because it’s unnatural. I think we need a capable 14-16 points a night 4, who comes on the real cheap and grabs about 9 rebounds a game then we will be MUCH better than I think people would admit. We are too in love with the current system, when in reality it does not provide the maximum potential available surrounding it’s key assets.

by fwedo on Feb 10, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

Rashard Lewis, at this point, is better off continuing to play the PF position because of the mismatches he brings on offense. He’s proven more than capable of defending fellow four’s on a nightly basis.

How can the Magic be too in love with the current system, when this is the second year in which the team has played this particular brand of basketball? It works. Orlando has one of the best inside/outside combinations in the NBA and the team also plays hard-nosed defense (2nd in defensive efficiency). With a healthy Jameer, this squad is a unanimous Title contender. End of story.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 10, 2009 3:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just because someone is capable of doing something

doesn’t mean they are in the best position to maximize their assets.

And everything you have said relies on Jameer being healthy. He isn’t. He is out. He most probably won’t be back. And even in disregard of that-we don’t know how this team would react playing everyone at their natural positions. I agree, completely, that with the tools we currently have we have the best strategy and system for our needs. It’s in the fact that Hedo will probably opt out of this year, and because he is not getting younger that we should consider just trading him in and taking the rest of the season to try something new out because Jameer IS out.

by fwedo on Feb 10, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

If we are going to roll wiht Lue, time to trade Hedo.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Feb 10, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thing is, the Magic are maximizing their assets.

If the team went the “traditional route”, then either Hedo or Lewis wouldn’t have started beginning last year. But SVG knew what he was doing when he started ’Shard at the four.

It’s a fact that Hedo will opt out, but it’s an almost certainty (given who I’ve spoken to) that Turk will most likely re-sign with the Magic. Trading him now is stupid because Orlando needs him more than ever, now that Jameer is out. I would have considered the possibility before Nelson went down with injury, but not now. Turk is way too unique of a player to just trade away when his particular skill-set is needed at the moment.

“If we’re rolling with Lue, time to trade Hedo.”

Really?

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 10, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think there is a lot of worry

That even though Hedo may have indicated he will resign with the Magic, the word of an NBA player is to be taken with a grain of salt, as situations can and do change.

Magic fans especially, are still feeling the insecurities of Shaq walking out and getting nothing for him. Why shouldn’t we worry that the same might happen with Hedo?

Point is, if there is a way of securing a talent equal to, or greater than Hedo (and yes, i am aware that comparing Hedo’s skills to Amare’s is comparing apples to oranges) and negating that risk that we lose him for nothing, then why not look at it? Even if it isn’t the trade i proposed above?

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 10, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Comparing Hedo's situation to Shaq's isn't an effective argument.

Two totally different situations.

Let’s say, just for arguments sake, that Amare comes to Orlando. What guarantees will the team have that he stays after 2009? And even if he would want to stay, where will the Magic have the money to afford him (without exceeding the luxury tax)?

Think about it. He’d demand max money. The team already has two max contracts. It just doesn’t work financially with Amare. With Hedo, it does.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 10, 2009 6:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The major point i was trying to make, is that Magic fans do have the legitimate fear that we may lose Hedo for nothing.

Hedo and Shaq ARE two totally different people. For one, i have never seen the ego that Shaq displays anywhere in Hedo’s personality, and i don’t see Hedo bolting for LA to rap or to NY to sell Nikes, but noone but Hedo knows what Hedo will do. I just don’t think we should rest in the comfort of:

’we’re pretty sure Hedo will resign in Orlando’

The Cavs were pretty sure Carlos Boozer was gonna resign too…

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 10, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand the paranoia .. trust me, I sympathize, but ..

.. considering the Magic will have plenty of cash available to re-sign Hedo, I’m not TOO concerned. I’ll put this on the record now. I’d be shocked if Hedo DIDN’T re-sign with Orlando.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 10, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’d be happy if he didn’t. We need a real 4 to bang and get rebounds. Lew is a mismatch on offense, but a slight liability on defense. Which is the lesser of two evils? I’d love to have Haslem. Always have wanted him, or a nasty player like Reggie Evans. I don’t care about PERs. I care about chemistry. Their both really good rebounders and are unselfish. Besides, we have plenty of scorers.

by hevchv on Feb 15, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lewis isn't a liability on defense.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 15, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the same token, Evans is a liability on offense

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Ben Q Rock on Feb 15, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another interesting prospect...

While his long term contract might be something of a turn-off… How about Antawn Jamison? Rebounding big, provides similar mismatches on offense Lewis does (i.e. spreads the floor).

by Jaceman on Feb 16, 2009 4:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

By all accounts Wizards are trying to cut costs.

by Jaceman on Feb 16, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Love Jamison, but he's a tad bit too "old" for Orlando.

Also, the contract you mentioned is another minus.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 16, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Suppose Orlando does manage to land a serviceable rebounding big of some sort...

Either a la trade/free agency in the form of say something like David Lee, Nick Collison, Udonis Haslem, or the like…

Assuming that Magic do keep Hedo, how would the lineups work out? Same lineup with rebounder off the bench? Hedo or Rashard moving to the bench as super-sixth man? Starting ultra-long starting 5 with Hedo at the 2?

While having a hustle guy next to Howard for boards would be great, I wouldn’t be opposed to trading Hedo for a “sexier” big-man name.

I’d say Boozer, but somehow I just don’t see that working. Bosh or Amar’e would be ideal, but aren’t really super feasible, so…. Yeah, I got nothing… I seriously can’t think of a legit 4 that would “fit” ideally short of Boozer, and in that case Orlando might as well just take a stab at free agency. David West?

by Jaceman on Feb 16, 2009 6:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Assuming the Magic re-sign Hedo, they won't have the money to afford anyone else.

Orlando will have a little bit of money left to try locking up someone like Gortat, but that’s really it.

But for the sake of argument, if the Magic were to sign someone like .. Haslem, for example. He’d be best served coming off the bench, because both Hedo & Rashard are better players than Udonis. Starting Turkoglu at the 2 would be unwise, because he would get destroyed defensively against quicker guards. Given the mismatch on defense, that wear & tear would affect Hedo’s offense directly, which isn’t good.