Trading Keith Bogans for Tyronn Lue Makes Sense for the Orlando Magic
by Evan Dunlap on Feb 5, 2009 5:04 PM EST
in Commentary
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PrintAs you've no doubt heard by now, the Orlando Magic have traded shooting guard Keith Bogans to the Milwaukee Bucks for point guard Tyronn Lue. This swap of two backups allows both teams to plug roster holes created by injuries to their usual starters. Orlando's Jameer Nelson will likely miss the rest of the regular season due to a torn labrum in his right shoulder, while Milwaukee's Michael Redd will definitely miss the rest of the season with a torn MCL and ACL. Obviously, nobody expects Lue to duplicate Nelson's numbers, or Bogans to replicate Redd's. The trade merely provides teams with some much-needed depth.
The reaction on Orlando's side has been mixed, but mostly negative. Commenters on this site wanted Magic GM Otis Smith to make a bigger move, perhaps acquiring younger talent. Others, including my colleague erivera7, believe the Magic could have gotten more in return for Bogans, who has a valuable expiring contract.
Brian Schmitz, however, calls the deal "pretty decent," and I tend to agree with him. For me, the biggest issue regarding a trade for Nelson's replacement wasn't necessarily his talent, but rather his salary. Other on-the-trading-block point guards like Oklahoma City's Earl Watson and Indiana's Jamaal Tinsley are better than Lue, but have contracts that run longer than this season. It was important for Orlando to obtain a player whose contract expired in order to maintain salary-cap flexibility to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu this summer. Although the Magic haven't made a formal announcement, I believe this trade signals that Nelson's season is over, and that the Magic will try to re-load this summer by re-signing Turkoglu and getting Nelson back healthy. They'll make their championship run next year, in other words.
I am indeed sympathetic to people like Scott from Ridiculous Upside, who wanted the Magic to look to the D-League to sign a young player instead of a retread like Lue. That's just not Smith's style, though. The Magic have not made a D-League call-up since 2004, when Smith was still an assistant GM. Further, he values NBA experience--perhaps to a fault, in this case--and Lue provides that, as a member of two NBA championship teams. In this case, the Magic needed someone who could learn an offense quickly and contribute. There's no time for them to develop a young player, given their solid hold on the Eastern Conference's third seed and the likelihood that they'll have to go through both Cleveland and Boston if they hope to make the NBA Finals. There's no question that point guard is still a long-term area of need for the Magic; they need a young guy they can groom into Nelson's backup eventually. The trade of Bogans for Lue is a short-term fix that will not compromise the team's long-term goal of winning a championship.
Ultimately, I'm not thrilled with the move, but the Magic got what they needed: a competent point guard who can shoot three-pointers and get out of the way. They also cleared the logjam at the shooting guard position; Bogans, Courtney Lee, J.J. Redick, and Mickael Pietrus have each started for the Magic at various points this season. Bogans had fallen well out of the rotation lately, and was thus expendable. Lue is not by any means a great NBA player, or even a good one. But given the Magic's specific situation--lots of shooting guards, only one healthy point guard--he can give them more than Bogans could have were he to stay.
If you're still seething, think of it this way: at least it's not Trevor Ariza for Maurice Evans and Brian Cook, amIrite?
Head over to BrewHoop, SB Nation's Bucks blog, for the Milwaukee perspective. So far, the reaction is muted, to say the least.
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I don't mind the trade...
It’s just that all of the D-Leaguer’s aren’t just rookies. Maurice Baker, who I thought would be the best fit, is 29 years old, has been to the NBA twice, has won three minor league championships, and has played numerous times at a high-level overseas. Too late now, obviously, but at least it’d have been nice to see some possible upside..
Ridiculous? I think Not.
Upside? Plenty.
What if.......
Jameer’s success had less to do with him and more to do with the system?? In other words Jameer is a system player and as such replacing him is not as big a deal as some think? Let the flaming begin….
Now I don’t want Jameer to go anywhere, I want him in Orlando for years to come, but looking at this season and the overall growth of the team as well as Jameer over the last two seasons I think there is some merit to this point of view.
The system in symplistic terms terms is surround Dwight with shooters, penetration, play contain defense funneling the play at Dwight, limit turnovers, defensive rebounding (again Dwight), give up offensive rebounds in favor of getting back on defense (so you can funnel the action at Dwight) limit penetration as much as possible, do not gamble on the defensive end,
The lynchpin in all this is Dwight Howard. So lets say that that Jameer is a big loss, but not as damaging as it appears. You need to back him up with a shooter (Lue) and decent handler and defender, (Lue). Sure there is going to be a dropoff however some of the slack can be taken up by Hedo and his “point forward” ability.
All I am saying is that perhaps SVG (and Otis) knows that Howard is the key and fit the pieces around him knowing that they might have to be interchangable.
What if?
Do no harm!!
Dwight is the key
and no offense, everyone already knew that before you wrote that nice article. Im with you 100% though, the thing about it is, having a player like Nelson not only makes our system run very smoothly, but it also creates another problem for the opposing defense’s perimeter defenders. Nelson is at this point, exactly what we need at the PG spot. He can dish, drive, shoot and plays with plenty of heart, so losing him only sets us back as far as our advantages on offense are concerned. Again, I see what you mean about Dwight. I would be more bummed out if he were out for the season and not Jameer (just like everyone else), but he’s not so I think we’ll be “okay” in the POs this season.
"In order for us to make a move, It has to make sense" - Otis Smith's favorite saying
Tyronne Lue as the backup to Anthony Johnson makes sense...
But there’s a reason he hasn’t really been able to stay with any team. However, it makes the most sense if you look at it from a “keeping your head above the water” perspective for this season into next season. Of course, a lot of it has to do with roster flexibility, especially in whether or not Hedo opts out and if Magic can resign him or someone else. Especially being tied to three long-term contracts already.
Personally...I dont care who starts at PG
I just want someone effective at this point, so I see your logic about “keeping our heads above water”. We already know that we’re a lock for the POs and it just depends on how far we can get this season (sort of like a measuring stick situation).
At this point, I think our biggest concern is next season, when I really think will be our year. Hopefully this move allows us to resign Hedo with some of that $2.2M coming off the books from Lue’s current contract. Hopefully Lue resigns (understanding that he has the chance to play with contenders) for a cheap amount (somewhere around the $7k area). Hopefully, we are able to resign Hedo and Jameer will be back ready to go again. Also next season, CLee will be much more experience and Dwight will hopefully have already developed a nice bankshot/10 ft jumper.
"In order for us to make a move, It has to make sense" - Otis Smith's favorite saying
Not just three long-term contracts
Pietrus and Lee are also locked down for 4 and 3 more years respectively. If Turk gets resigned, the first 6 of the rotation will be set through 2012.
Looking at it this way, this trade was a good trade. No sense in losing valuable pieces when the core is, and will continue to be, here already. Once Cook is off the books, then a long-term solution at backup PG can be found. And When Battie is off the books, the same goes for PF. But for now, we need to stick with the core players that are locked down and in place. Experience in a system can often times override a slight advantage in skill.
The Magic didn't need to sacrifice one of its core players to net a better find via trade.
If Orlando would have paired Bogans & Cook (both expiring contracts), hell .. toss Foyle in there too (another expiring contract), the Magic could have gotten a better player than Lue.
I said this elsewhere, but given the state of the economy, many teams are looking to cut back on payroll so expiring contracts have a bit more value right now than normal. GM Otis Smith could have taken advantage of that and tried to see what he could get .. but he opted for the safe move. The Bogans/Lue isn’t a bad trade, per se, but it’s not a good one either. It’s just w/e.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
you still need a full roster..
If we did 3 for 1 trade, then how do we avoid the luxury tax. Its simple really. Without blowing up the core, you can’t make a big change without hitting luxury tax territory.
NBA teams are required to carry, at minimum, 12 players on the active roster and 1 player on the inactive roster.
Theoretically, if the Magic were to swap 3 for 1 .. they’d need an additional cheap body to fill out its roster but they’d be fine (that type of bartering is standard).
In that scenario, Orlando would be carrying a 14 man roster. 12 active, 2 inactive (Nelson, Wilks). It could work.
As for the luxury tax, given the fact Bogans/Cook/Foyle add up roughly to $7.2 Mill., a trade wouldn’t really be too difficult to execute in terms of staying under the tax.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
In fact, and I'll add .. Hollinger suggested a swap similar to my theory, for Hinrich.
He came up with the idea on an Insider article he wrote a day or two ago (pretty much echoing my sentiment), but now it’s a moot point since the Lue trade has occurred.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
i think it fits man… both are expiring, lue plugs a gap for half a season. he can score a lil he can definitely step in and run our offense smoothly …
he may not be a ‘good’ defender as i said before, but i can assure he won’t hurt us, especially not when our defense is basically funnel your guy in to Dwight haha …
i personally guarantee we will soon be talking and hearing about lue starting over AJ….
To be honest, I expect Lue to eventually start over Johnson.
Tyronn is statistically a teeny, weeny bit better than A.J.
In the end, however, that’s not really saying much.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
It'll do
He fits the mold of what Stan likes in a point, a shooter. As the 5th option I think he’ll do fine.
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
lue should start,
eventually, after learning the system. no neck’s gonna give me an aneurysm
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
Lue is, statistically, the better player.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him usurp A.J. as the starter sometime this season.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
statistically doesn’t mean shit … all you have to do is watch AJ struggle mightily just bringing the ball up the court … on every possession …
haha, lmao at your opening statement, very true
"In order for us to make a move, It has to make sense" - Otis Smith's favorite saying
exactly
it’s amazing to watch a point guard with his back to the basket 99% of the time.
www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04
I agree with Ben's commentary completely
Lue will be a serviceable backup PG for the Magic who will play (and hopefully contribute) in every game while Bogans fell completely out of the Magic rotation.
by Mike from Illinois on Feb 5, 2009 9:12 PM EST reply actions
The trade makes sense, but I still don't like the move.
GM Otis Smith is basically content with reaching the 2nd Rd. this year. It’s obvious that’s what this trade signifies .. last year, I wouldn’t have complained but given what has transpired so far this season, I would have liked to have seen Smith be a bit more aggressive in trying to pursue a better player.
I don’t even care if Smith would have been rejected in trying to haul in Barbosa, Felton, etc. .. but it would at least shown me, and everyone else here, that he tried to find a more suitable replacement for Nelson this year. I’m all for the big picture, and I realize what Otis is doing in acquiring a player with an expiring contract.. but for example, Felton’s contract is also expiring this season (yes, he becomes a restricted FA but I’d assume Orlando would let him walk). The objective (maintain cap flexibility to try to re-sign Hedo) would have still have been met.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
I feel u bro
But lets just be happy with what we got here, Im not completely satisfied as well but, I mean at least it’s better than where we were 2 days ago.
"In order for us to make a move, It has to make sense" - Otis Smith's favorite saying
Will Ty Lue play 2moro in Indy?
Anyone know?
"In order for us to make a move, It has to make sense" - Otis Smith's favorite saying
i think lue sucks
i think bogans is no good either. but lue really sucks.
that being said – this is a well rounded trade. simple, clean, an addition for both teams. i like it. i’m just glad that neither of those mopes are on the knicks.
and since this is my first post on your blog – i would like to take this opportunity to curse you into the depths of eternal oblivion for unloading steve francis on the knicks. may all your worst (basketball related) nightmares become very very true.
Welcome to 3QC!
Glad to have you stop by.
You can go ahead and blame Isaiah Thomas for gladly taking Stevie “Franchise” away from the Magic.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
This trade depresses me.
How is it a good idea to restore the Atlanta Hawks horrific point guard combination from 12 months ago?
It feels a wasted opportunity to me.
http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/
Poor Bucks
Bucks have the worst luck. The same day they finalized the trade, Like Ridnour reportedly messed up his thumb in practice, so they went from three point guards to one in one day.
http://www.brewhoop.com/2009/2/5/751193/injury-of-the-day-luke-rid
Tip my hat to Bogans
I know Bogans wasn’t everyone’s favorite player, but he still gave it his all in Orlando. The guy came in to replace Stevenson and filled the role perfectly. He acme at a much cheaper price, and I don’t think Stevenson was a much better player that Bogans. He was a key player on a team that made it to the second round (big deal for us). This season he struggled, but he still hustled and gave it his all.
My fondest memory of Bogans this season was when he had to guard Kobe in the first Laker game. Sure, Kobe scored 40 in that game but most of his points came early. Bogans roughed him up and even hit the deck for 3 or 4 of his own fouls. By the end of the game Kobe was spent because Bogans never let up. If it wasn’t for Bogans, Kobe could have scored 60 in a rout.
So long Bogans, I hope you help the Bucks make the playoffs and someone overpays you in a long term deal.
Well said.
I’ll miss KBo too, even though he did suck mightily this year.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
Yup. Ray Ray deserves it. Glad he got the bid.
I figured it’d be either him or Rondo, so not surprised Allen got the spot.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
bogans will be missed
i’ll remember him for a few big shot 3-pointers, a few missed 3-pointers, and a mean attitude on the court.
lue’s most notorious moment came when allen iverson high stepped over lue during game 1 of the finals.
damnit otis. this is a classic magic trade circa 1999.
by milogoestovalencia on Feb 6, 2009 1:28 PM EST reply actions
A Bogans memory
I was at the Jacksonville training camp scrimmage the fall that he joined the team. He missed a shot after some contact and didn’t get a foul call. He turned around and punched the pad in anger. Everyone around me was giving him crap for having such an attitude during a scrimmage with his own team, but I was cheering for him after that. On a team with Dwight, Grant, and Darko his attitude was desperatly needed.
Even though I’m not happy to see him go, I knew since the summer that he souldn’t make it past the deadline.
i never saw his attitude.
he came to my job to eat almost every week this summer and was one of the nicest guys you could meet. even when he came with his girl (lights out gorgeous) and his boy and his girl (another knockout, perks of having celebrity friends) he was always smiling and conversating with me. maybe i didn’t go to enough games to see it. shard is super nice as well although i have seen his mean streak during a few games.
Nice stories, both of you.
I think we can all agree Bogans will be missed (even though he was having an off-year this season). I, personally, wish him well in Milwaukee and hope he can bounce back to finish the year strong.
Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
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