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Orlando Magic Acquire Rafer Alston: Statistical and Financial Analysis

As you've no doubt heard, the Orlando Magic--who as recently as 15 minutes before today's trading deadline did not have any deal on the table--have acquired 32-year-old point guard Rafer Alston from the Houston Rockets in exchange for power forward Brian Cook, pending league approval. Additionally, they sent center Adonal Foyle, point guard Mike Wilks, and a first-round draft pick in this year's draft to the Memphis Grizzlies, who in turn sent point guard Kyle Lowry to Houston. Here's a visual representation of the trade in ESPN.com's Trade Machine.

Once available, Alston will replace the 34-year-old Anthony Johnson in the Magic's starting lineup this season, and take over for him as the team's primary backup next season, when incumbent starter Jameer Nelson will return from the injury to the labrum in his right shoulder; he underwent season-ending surgery today, the team announced. Foyle, who has played only 29 minutes this season, and Wilks, who is out for the year due to a knee injury, are included in the deal for salary-matching purposes.

What follows the jump is a statistical and financial analysis of the deal.

Star-divide

Statistics

Rafter Alston and Anthony Johnson Statistics, 2008/2009 NBA Season
Rafer Alston profile page shot
Alston
vs.Anthony Johnson profile page shot
Johnson
Traditional
12.5Points/369.2
3.3Rebounds/363.5
5.8Assists/364.9
2.0Turnovers/361.7
37.0FG%39.5
34.83FG%41.2
78.9FT%73.6
Advanced
12.8PER10.1
5.3Rebound Rate5.5
26.3Assist Rate20.6
13.4Turnover Rate16.0
19.0Usage Rate19.0
44.6eFG%47.0
48.4TS%50.3
104Offensive Rating106
107Defensive Rating105
See the complete comparison at Basketball-Reference.com by clicking here

From these data, we can glean that Alston is overall a better ballhandler than Johnson, with more assists and fewer turnovers. The red flag for Alston, though, is his usage rate. Playing alongside superstar center Yao Ming and "superstar" guard Tracy McGrady (a glorified role-player this season), Alston still managed to use nearly one-fifth of the Rockets' possessions when he was on the floor this year, which suggests that he's a guy who isn't necessarily aware of his limitations. Johnson, in contrast, seems to know better than to shoot 11 times per game, as Alston did in Houston; thus, his usage rate is only three-quarters of what Alston's is.

Another discrepancy comes in the form of three-point shooting, where Johnson has been surprisingly well above-average. In Nelson's absence, Orlando has given more playmaking duties to Hedo Turkoglu, who has been able to drive the lane and dish to Johnson for a spot-up jumper. Johnson is somewhat reliable in catch-and-shoot situations. The problem with playing Johnson off the ball is that it means Turkoglu is handling it more, and although he's shown he can make plays for his teammates, it's taking its toll on his shooting. In the six full games since Nelson went out, Turkoglu is shooting 35.6% from the field and scoring 14.3 points per game. His pure point rating is 1.96, which is better than his season average of 1.5, but that slight increase in passing efficiency doesn't offset the decrease in scoring. Simply put, Alston will take pressure off Turkoglu, which should in turn improve the offense.

The defense is harder to quantify. Basketball-Reference's Defensive Rating shows Johnson to be the better player. However, BasketballValue's two-year adjusted plus-minus show that Alston is better, as his rating is -4.89, as opposed to Johnson's -7.69. Anecdotally, Alston is much quicker than Johnson, which hopefully means he will do a better job of staying in front of his man than Johnson has.

It's worth noting that Alston played one year for Magic coach Stan Van Gundy when Van Gundy coached the Miami Heat in 2003/2004. Alston played all 82 games. In 28 starts, he averaged 12.2 points, 3.3 rebounds, 5.7 assists, and 3.2 turnovers on 39.7% shooting from the field in 40.7 (!) minutes per game. Of course, Alston is no longer 27 years old, and has lost a step or two. However, he's still several steps quicker than Johnson.

If you're curious to see how Alston's performance this year compares to the performances of the Magic's backup point guards last year, you're in luck. Alston's PER is identical to Carlos Arroyo's, largely due to his significantly lower turnover rate. He does not compare as favorably to Keyon Dooling, which is to be expected. And, of the three, Alston is the worst shooter.

Ultimately, Alston isn't a great player by any means--our colleagues at The Dream Shake, who have watched Alston play in 267 games for Houston over the last 4 seasons, are ecstatic that he's gone--he's still an improvement over Johnson, who is best served as a third-stringer anyway. Short-term, the Magic upgraded their starting point guard position; longer-term, they upgraded their backup point guard position, and it only cost them three marginal players who rarely entered games. Alston won't push the Magic over the top this year, but he will probably provide steady backup minutes next year, when the Magic will seriously contend for a title again, as they were earlier this year before Nelson's injury. The trade isn't a home run, but it's a low-risk, high-reward move.

Finances

In today's NBA, finances are arguably more important than talent when it comes to evaluating trades. Any trade that compromises long-term financial flexibility would be a bad one in Orlando's small market, especially considering the team just took out a $10 million loan from the NBA. Fortunately, the Magic don't lose much money in this deal. Alston is owed $4.9 million this year and $5.25 million next, after which he will become an unrestricted free agent. Cook has a $3.5 million player option for next season, which he'll certainly exercise. Additionally, first-round draft picks are owed guaranteed money depending on at which pick they were selected. We could realistically expect the Magic to be on the hook for up to $1 million, which is what George Hill, last year's 26th draft pick, is making. Essentially, the difference between what the Magic will pay Alston next year and what they would have paid Cook and their draft pick is $750,000, or the value of one veteran's-minimum contract. That amount should not significantly impact their ability to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu this summer in what will certainly be a buyer's market for free agents.

There's another financial benefit. Suppose the Magic find themselves in a great position at this time next year, perhaps with one of the league's best records. Then suppose they believe they're one player away from winning the championship. Then suppose there are trade-asset-laden teams looking to cut salary in anticipation of 2010's absurdly star-studded free-agent pool. The Magic will have Alston's $5.25 million contract to offer, as well as Tony Battie's $6.29 million contract. Hypothetically, they could package them in a blockbuster move, deal them separately to acquire similarly talented players at different positions, or simply keep them and free-up salary for 2010. To be clear, even with $11.54 million coming off the books, the Magic won't be able to land a top-flight star, especially when factoring in Turkoglu's new contract. However, there are worse things than having some cap space; flexibility doesn't hurt.

Conclusion

It's hard not to like this deal from the Magic's perspective. I'm not as enthusiastic as Michael White, but it is indeed good to know that the Magic have not quite given up on this season, as I believed they had. (Part of my apathy toward last night's 32-point loss to the New Orleans Hornets stemmed from acceptance that this season was effectively over). Although Kelly Dwyer is right when he says the Magic probably got the second-best point guard in the deal--Lowry is 10 years younger than Alston--I believe Alston is more likely to contribute immediately. The Magic should be in the market for a younger backup to Jameer Nelson, but that's a personnel move that can wait. For now, the Magic have made their splash, and it's clear they are back in "win-now" mode.

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we just fleeced both teams

at least we can say again “who you gon leave open?”

floor spacing is gonna be clutch once again. an actual pg that has a handle too!

www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04

by mhetrick14 on Feb 19, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff Ben.

I agree that Lowry is the better player but at this point, as I’ve said elsewhere, Alston is the better fit for the Magic right now. Obviously you agree with that sentiment also.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 8:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Paraphrased to the best of my ability... Kenny Smith on TNT's pregame show

This is a paraphrase from Kenny Smith minutes ago. No exaggeration…

“Rafer Alston will distribute the ball to Dwight, Rashard and Turkoglu better than what Jameer can do. These guys will score more with Rafer distributing the ball to them compared to Jameer Nelson. This takes them over the top. They are over the top in comparison to Cleveland, not Boston yet, but this takes them over Cleveland”

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Charles agreed.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Percisely what I kept driving home...

we don’t need Rafer to score all that much, 10 ppg is just WONDERFUL. The ball distribution will be leaps and bounds better than what we’ve been seeing the past two weeks. The TNT guys also really believe he’s a better passer than ‘Meer. Take it for what it’s worth.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They never said he was.

They said he can distribute the ball to the Magic’s scorers better than Jameer.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That in and of itself is insane

Rafer is a terrible passer, he’s turnovers are low because 98% of his passes come at the top of the arc

by UofTOrange on Feb 19, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I get it...

you’re saying no aspect of his game is better than Jameer’s (same aspect) gotcha. Just relaying what two TNT analysts just said on their broadcast, Kenny even thought Jameer was an all-star, Charles probably did too, but he was suspended when they made their picks.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This trade is really good for Orlando.

I think the Magic can win the East now. I like the win-now mode because they have an opening and can take it. I also would love to see them win instead of Boston or Cavs.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

by SRQman on Feb 19, 2009 8:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I completely disagree.

Even with Alston, the Magic aren’t winning the East. Only with Jameer is that possible.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

what is that based on?

i understand that out of Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando, we would be third in terms of chances of winning the East. But to claim, without hesitation, that it is impossible to reach the finals without Jameer is annoying. I think you would agree that before the injury, the magic had somewhere near a 33% chance of finishing first. Could the odds really be less than even 15% now? With Jonhson instead of Meer that would be likely, but with a league average point guard (with the possibility of being above that with a new system, better shooters, different environment , etc.) our chances have to be better than impossible.

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I mean two TNT analysts both just said this trade (and Cleveland's lack-of)

makes the Magic a better team than Cleveland, apparently their opinions are ‘insane’ or they must be ‘high.’

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The fact that they are TNT analysts doesn't impress me.

If they think the addition of Alston makes Orlando better than Cleveland, then by that logic a healthy Jameer would have made the Magic the team to beat in the East. No? Yet I never heard that type of claim from either of them before Nelson went down with an injury.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh man

No, a healthy Jameer wouldn’t have made the team to beat in the East, because that team is the defending NBA champions the Celtics, with our without Nelson AND/OR Alston neither of them think they’re better than Boston.

I don’t care if you’re impressed with that occupations or not, seeing as your an aspiring journalist one would think you would be impressed with their profession, but if you don’t respect them for whatever reason, that’s cool, that’s your opinion.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not that I don't respect their opinion.

It’s just that I don’t really take their comments lightly because usually, they have no idea what the hell they’re talking about. Both Charles & Kenny usually just make blind comments, without really backing it up with facts or figures.

There are experts/writers out there I admire, but none of them work for TNT.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why did you delete my comments?

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

my fault...

I have no idea, they disappeared for a minute and then came back? Hope Rock isn’t pissed at me…maybe I went too far?

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe everyone hates Kenny & Charles!

Haha, I kid, I kid.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's happened to me a few times, lol

it’s probably just the system

or a conspiracy!!

You read it! You can't unread it!

by TheGiantSquid on Feb 19, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't do anything to anyone's comments

I left immediately after I made this post. Headache. This is my first time back.

by Ben Q Rock on Feb 19, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look.

Never in my statement did I say that Orlando’s chances of winning the East are impossible. I guess it’s implied since I said the Magic “aren’t” but whatever ..

.. with Jameer, I’d argue (and I would have the backing of Kevin Pelton, David Thorpe, etc.) that the Magic were the team to beat in the East. Nelson was playing like a top five PG. Replacing his production IS impossible, and even though Alston will be able to help some, it’s not going to be enough to overtake either Boston or Cleveland. It’s just not, and that’s the reality of the situation.

Does Orlando stand a better chance now against Boston & Cleveland in the POs because of this trade? Sure. Will it be enough? Personally, I’d say no BUT the team has a fighting chance now.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 8:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And I personally agree with you.

Other than with Jameer they were better than Boston.

And I was just relying what Kenny stated, which Charles agreed to. Kenny never said they’d win the east either, just said as of right now they’re better than Cleveland, which I don’t know if I agree with that either, just what he thinks.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not killing the messenger (vis-a-vis you).

I’m just criticizing the rationale to their “analysis”, which I think is flawed.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I gotcha, but you gotta understand there are others who have different opinions...

whether you respect them or not, they have their jobs probably because they are former NBA basketball players, but they are generally respected by their peers in their given industry.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you said only with jameer would it be possible to win the east

So if its only possible to win the east with jameer, one could reasonably come to the conclusion that it would be impossible to win it without him.
Of course replacing his production is impossible, only Paul had a better PER this year. No argument there. I respect your opinion that you dont think they have a chance. However, by saying something like “it’s not going to be enough to overtake either Boston or Cleveland. It’s just not, and that’s the reality of the situation.” is irrational. How do you know thats the reality? I would agree that with this addition, at least until we see how Alston plays in a blue uniform, we are closer to the team we saw last night than the contenders earlier in the year.

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not really closer to the hornets game, we arent anywhere near that bad

more like closer to how weve been playing the past couple weeks without meer

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think my statement is irrational.

I could easily back it up with statistics to support my claim, but I don’t need to. I’m not trying to sound rude by saying that .. it’s just the truth. Alston is decent, don’t get me wrong but when you place him on the Magic, as a whole, the team isn’t better than either Boston or Cleveland right now. With Jameer, they are as good if not better (depending on who you ask). That’s a fact. I’ve had three different experts support that notion.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

erivera, some of your comments are a bit over the top...

look at this for instance.

You say that you’ve talked to 3 experts who support they are as good or better than Boston and Cleveland, ok that’s all good and fine.

Then you say, you don’t take what Charles and Kenny say lightly, (which I think you meant to say you did take what they say lightly) because whatever they say is all just fluff.

So how is the opinion of your 3 experts more accurate than the opinion of Charles and Kenny, because in your opinion, they are “better experts” than Charles and Kenny. There are going to be TONS of opinions out there, some that will agree with you and your experts and some that look at things in a different light. I don’t think it means they’re high or insane if they don’t share your same opinion, it’s just what they feel. Maybe it’s not even what they feel, they sometimes say outlandish things to get ratings and keep people talking — like we’ve been doing for quite a while!!

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The opinion of those three experts, in my opinion, are "better" because ..

.. the back their claims up with actual facts & figures. You already know how much I value statistics, so you should already know what my answer is going to be.

I take Charles or Kenny lightly because they don’t have a grasp of advanced statistical measures that can be used to support a certain claim or opinion.

That’s just me. I understand everyone has their own opinion and that’s fine, but I value empirical evidence when backing up a certain notion.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's a good point

at the same time Charles and Kenny lived this sport we all overanalyze as their occupations. They’ve got just as good of a grip on it that any statistical expert.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that they have a good grip of basic trends in the NBA ..

.. but I don’t think they have a feel for the intricacies occurring around the league. The same applies for the various ‘experts’ on ESPN, whether they’re covering MLB, NFL, etc.

For the most part, athletes just go by what they see and what they have experienced in the past. That’s fine, but it creates loopholes in their analysis.

It is what it is.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again..

I agree with the notions that we arent better than Cleveland and Boston. What you are doing is stating that your opinion (that the magic cant win the east) is actually a fact.

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 9:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say (granted a sleeper doesn't pull something crazy)

Boston – 45 %
Cleveland – 35 %
Orlando – 20%

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My whole point is that

if you want people to agree to your claim that Orlando cant possibly finish first, you would need to support it. Im trying to explaine that you cant prove that the magic wont win the east. Yes it is unlikely, and exaggerating and making claims based on opinion are fine as long as you dont claim them as facts. Even if you had the best statistics available you couldnt give me evidence that Orlando wont make it to the finals, even Hollinger gives the magic a 15% chance to make it (this was before the Alston trade was announced).

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not asking people to agree with me. I'm just stating my opinion.

And just so you know, Hollinger’s percentages don’t take into account the fact that Orlando’s offense, even with Alston, isn’t as good as before (it’s essentially average, at best). All JH’s numbers do is provide the chances of the team strictly based on win-loss record, Hollinger’s power rankings, etc.

Take his numbers/percentages with a grain of salt.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

True, i just read that on his page. Figured Hollinger was better than that

Anyway I have no problem with you stating your opinion, but you made it more than an opinion by saying “thats just the reality of the situation”. You cant just claim what reality is. Thats what I would expect from ESPN and analysts on TBS.
This has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing with you…

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I'm speaking too much in absolutes.

I’ll just say I’m confident in my opinion, based on the numbers and trends that I see when comparing Boston, Cleveland, and Orlando.

Let’s just wait and see what happens. Anything is possible.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine. You don't need to agree with my notion ..

.. that I don’t think Orlando has a chance to win the East. If you need to wait and see what happens, that’s fine. But I stand by my statement.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we can definitely beat cle

unless lebron goes into witness mode.

the c’s i don’t think is possible even with jameer

www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04

by mhetrick14 on Feb 19, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Notice how I said they can

because it CAN happen. This trade increases their chances than if they just kept the team the way it was after Jameer went down.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

by SRQman on Feb 19, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good Deal!!!

Considering what we had to give up i don’t think we could’ve done much better… Looking past this year i’d say that’s one helluva 1-2 punch at the PG position with a healthy Nelson and now Alston…..

by orltragic07 on Feb 19, 2009 8:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sure-is AND the money AND Cook's player option which he would have picked up..

all work out. There is really nothing to dislike about this.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good to see the Magic sent 'Meer to Dr. James Andrews

He’s widely regarded as being the best surgeon in the business and around the MLB as well.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 8:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I know he did surgery to WWE wrestler Triple H

And it was supposed to be a career ending injury….that was maybe 7 years ago and he’s still going strong. plenty of faith in the Doc. Jameer is in safe hands!

Bleeding Blue and Silver for 20 of my 23 years.

by FLYNN47 on Feb 19, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why do we have a graphic comparing Anthony Johnson's per 36 to Rafer Alston's?

Let’s compare them in relation to the amount of minutes they average, that makes more sense no? I mean Anthony Johnson hasn’t played more than 30 minutes in the past 2 months, should we really create fictional numbers that may or may not be accurate if he were suddenly 10 years younger and had the stamina to play that long each night? You can manipulate any kind of stats to look a certain way, I believe we should compare their numbers in the most realistic way in regards to their play.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I just think it paints a very skewed portrayal of Anthony Johnson’s game. He is just not a 9/5/3.5 point guard, he’s just not.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but that becomes a problem when you try and compare someone averaging 15 min to a 30 min player

i think per36 is the most realistic way in comparison to just a players raw average. Johnson wouldnt die after 30 minutes (cant be sure) he would get stats. Besides 36 minutes is more than what the average player gets a night, so a line of 9/5/3.5 shouldnt be considred outlandish. Dont get too caught up in player comparisons, there are so many variables that affect statlines that dont even take player ability into account. Its just the best tools we have at the moment

by Roc on Feb 19, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

lol he would die!

JK, he’s only 3 years older than Alston, but a graphic of him with 9/5, is just inaccurate imo.

I mean if you were comparing players who average around the same amount of minutes played that’s one thing. When one of the players averages 12 minutes (1 full quarter) more than the other player in comparison, I’d rather go with per game average. Whatever floats your statistical boat, I guess.

Last 5 games;
7/1
5/3
4/1
6/4
8/2

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't use per game stats, though, to judge the worth of a player.

Those last 5 games, Johnson averaged 24.6 minutes per game. You need to extrapolate those statistics somehow, which is why per 36 minutes statistics, per 100 possessions statistics are valued more so than your “traditional” numbers.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Again, this is why you do...

I mean if you were comparing players who average around the same amount of minutes played that’s one thing. When one of the players averages 12 minutes (1 full quarter) more than the other player in comparison, I’d rather go with per game average. Whatever floats your statistical boat, I guess.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't make sense, though.

Why would you prefer per game average if Player A is avg. 20 minutes a game and Player B is avg. 34 minutes a game? Your comparison is going to be skewed. I don’t follow.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because assuming they are both playing 36 minutes per game is absurd

when one of the player hasn’t played greater than 30 minutes in the past 2 months. It makes more sense to compare averages of exactly that, what the players average. If AJ had the stamina do play 30+ like Rafer then ok, you could compare those numbers. He’s not that type of player, it’s just not logical to compare Player A who averages a full quarter less than player B. You’re telling me Rafer on his 31st minute is as effective as he is in his 1st minute? Just like Anthony isn’t as effective in his 19th minute as he is in his 1st minute. It’d be more realistic and accurate if per game stats were used. Why wouldn’t ESPN/FOX/CBS use the 36 per stat if it was the most accurate way to display a player’s ability?

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Your system claims

if player A plays 6 minutes off the bench and scores 6 points and 3 assists, he’s a “better player” than player B who plays 26 minutes, scores 15 points and 10 assists. See what I mean? It just isn’t logical IMO, if it works for you to compare players easier then by all means. But if you think Rafer and AJ are that close, I’ll respect that opinion.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How is it absurd? Did you even look at the comparison?

Rafer Alston – per 36 minutes .. 12.5 PPG, 5.6 APG, 1.3 SPG
Anthony Johnson – per 36 minutes .. 9.2 PPG, 4.9 APG, 1.2 SPG

Alston is clearly the better player. Using per 36 minutes statistics paints a much more accurate picture because it eliminates the skewed view of per game stats.

Again, I don’t follow your rationale and I probably won’t change your view.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No you won't

I guess you don’t understand the concept of Stamina. It’s ABSURD to compare imaginable, inaccurate and false stats of a player who CANT play that amount of time in a game. Again, you aren’t as effective in your 36th minute as you are in your first. Therefore, you can’t just take an arbitrary number and multiply it to reach 36.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll repeat myself for the last time.

All stats should be used with discretion and when applicable.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And I'll do the same.

It’s not using discretion or applicable to compare statistics to Anthony Johnson playing 36 minutes a night.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why wouldn't ESPN/FOX/CBS use the per 36 minutes stats?

Because the majority of their analysts & ‘experts’ can’t grasp the concepts of that advanced metric, or any other statistical measure for that matter. Plus the casual fan would tune out because it’d be information overload, even though if the average person would grasp advanced metrics in any sport, not just basketball, it’d be better for everyone because then people have a truer realization of how good/bad a player/team is, etc.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because the bench player playing 6 minutes

would be better represented if his stats were listed as 26/13 p/36 instead of his actual averages. I guess ESPN/FOX/CBS don’t even have real experts or analysts now because they can’t grasp “advanced metrics.”

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The stat should be used with discretion, as all stats should.

That’s probably the best way to explain its appropriate use.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

While we're at it if the season ended today...

we’d have to give LBJ the scoring title over Dwayne Wade. Despite the fact that they each average 28.4ppg, LBJ averages 30 seconds less per game than D-Wade giving him a better p/36 ratio.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We need a 3QC "Around-the-Horn"

can someone get in touch with Reali?

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Per 36 stats

If you prefer, take the per36 stats and halve them. Then they’re per18 stats, and 18 minutes is more in line with what Johnson plays.

by Ben Q Rock on Feb 19, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

David Aldridge (expert)

says

“great pickup for Orlando, pretty good player, starter in this league, started for a playoff team, you won’t find a better player that is available. Now Turkoglu can get off the ball, Rafer on the ball, can have real success getting the ball to Howard”

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sounds about right.

I think the main thing is that this move takes the ball out of Hedo’s hands, which in my opinion, is a good thing because as Ben pointed out above in his post, Turk’s numbers have been taking a hit because of the added responsibilities he’s had to take on in Jameer’s absence. Clearly playing the point-forward role for extended minutes at a time has taken its tole on Turkoglu.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 19, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

AH WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT!

Anyone see that dude on the halftime show?

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 9:25 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

no, pray share the event with us

You read it! You can't unread it!

by TheGiantSquid on Feb 19, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh hahaha

people can be very flexible

You read it! You can't unread it!

by TheGiantSquid on Feb 19, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like it..

Rafer is huge upgrade over AJ and Lue. Hedo can go back to his normal role.

Great move for Orlando..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z

by Wmillion on Feb 19, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Love the move

In no way does this make us the “team to beat” now as I’ve seen above, but at the very least, it makes the season interesting again. I was almost ready to throw in the emotional towel after the Hornets game.

by steve-o1285 on Feb 19, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey guys, Lee (UofTOrange) from The Dream Shake Here

I don’t want to rain on your parade completely, so here’s the good news. Rafer Alston is CLEARLY better than what y’all had with Jameer Nelson out, that’s indisputable. He’ll try hard, very hard. Here’s the bad news:

He’ll likely fail. His assists numbers are not going up. He’s a terrible entry passer and let’s be completely honest with ourselves, I love DHo, but he’s not a polished offensive player so more assists aren’t really going to come from playing with him unless you have the threat of being able to finish at the rim as a PG. Rafer cannot, do that. Not he won’t do that, he simply can not do that. He’s not a good three point shooter, and an "average’ three point shooter in this league is a bad one. If you can’t thrive off Yao Ming, the best offensive skills center in the league by about 25%, why on earth would it happen with Dwight Howard who is just an insane athlete? He repeatedly takes ill advised shots, we even named his floater a "Rafer", otherwise known as a stupid shot that has no chance of ever going in yet gets shot about 4 times a game anyway.

I honestly wish him well, but he’s been the bane of my Rockets fan existence since he showed up in Houston. I picked you guys to meet the Rockets (I know, haha) in the championship this year mostly because I thought Nelson would finally break out (he did). Rafer can not get you there, but given the right roll with the team, he might not stop it from happening. I promise you this though, you all will argue about him on a night in and night out basis as long as he is with the Magic. Some nights he’ll be great, the other 2/3rds of the time you’ll be pulling your hair out.

by UofTOrange on Feb 19, 2009 11:11 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

He is an infinitely better coach than the Rick Adelman of today

But no one in his entire career has been able to do it yet, and SVG had him once before

by UofTOrange on Feb 19, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt SVG will change anything.

Alston has been coached by Jerry Tarkanian, George Karl, Lenny Wilkins, Stan Van Gundy, Jeff Van Gundy, and Rick Adelman. It’s fair to say that Alston is what he is. No coach will change him.

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 20, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

At least he gives us a chance. We didn't have that yesterday.

I’m a believer in the ole’ “change of scenery”

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 19, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, he's had that 3 or 4 times now

And he is what he is. With or without Jameer the Magic will go as Superman goes, so at least you have a guy that isn’t just going to lose games for you. He’s not going to win many, but as long as SVG doesn’t let him, he won’t lose them either

by UofTOrange on Feb 19, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely no chance

that van gundy is going to allow any of that shit to happen. or howard for that matter.

and i don’t think you realize how bad anthony johnson/ty lue is. we need someone serviceable and they just can’t get the job done.

let’s be honest though- the bane of your rockets fan existence is the same as ours: TMAC.

www.last.fm/user/mhetrick04

by mhetrick14 on Feb 20, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rafer is a better distributor than ‘meer. ’meer was solid this year because he could drive to the basket. Because he was so successful, it caused the defense to collapse on him and he was able to make the right pass to the open man. Rafer can just get it to the man. He sees the floor so well. You guys will argue over stats until next season, the bottom line is they mean nothing. Games aren’t won on paper, they are played in a gym, with fans and emotions and lots of reaction. I’m a numbers guy by profession, but I throw it out of the window for sports comparisons.

by hevchv on Feb 19, 2009 11:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100% great comment.

Chuck and Kenny also stated that Rafer is a better distributor, strictly distributor than the worthy All-Star Jameer.

Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson

by DieSlowKeyshawn on Feb 20, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cardinals may have been the worst rushing team in the league ..

.. but they made up for it with a ridiculous passing attack. Even then those numbers are deceiving.

I’m not a Cardinals’ expert by any means, but although the team didn’t run it successfully in a traditional sense (handing the ball off), Arizona was able to make up for it with a pseudo running game (screens, quick pass to the flanker, etc).

Former Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website

by erivera7 on Feb 20, 2009 1:14 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rafer

He will make threes on kick-out shots coming from the post. He will not make anything else. The end.

"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on Feb 20, 2009 12:43 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You guys suck. Trading Adonal Foyle is easily the worst move

your franchise has ever made.

You will regret this!!!!

Tony.psd = Da Man
http://www.blueblitz.net
Check Out My New Blog! (Don't Worry, The Warriors are Still #1)

by Zorgon on Feb 20, 2009 4:27 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

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