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Trade Idea for the Magic

Hey guys, I've been looking at players that could fit the Orlando Magic's style and see if I could make a sensible trade for both sides. Unfotunately, this particular player does not fit with the TPE acquired from S/T'ing Turkoglu (something I would prefer to use, so as to not lose player assets). That's ok in this instance however, because this particular player is very much worth it and this trade idea will likely be my best even if I write up a few more trade ideas in the future.

My criteria for the Magic in a trade is to come out with a defensive wing presence. Mickael Pietrus is such a player, but he's been left solo after Courtney Lee was traded last summer. I believe the Magic have gotten weaker defensively in the backcourt (understandibly with CLee, Alston gone, the injury to Jameer this season, new players still trying to get into a good groove with the team). I believe JJ Redick and Matt Barnes are either simply ok defenders or slightly above average.  

And finally, the trade and my reasoning follows after the jump:

Star-divide

 

Detroit Pistons will trade:

Tayshaun Prince

Chucky Atkins

3 million Cash and an unprotected 1st Round Pick

 

Orlando Magic will trade:  

Anthony Johnson

JJ Redick

Brandon Bass

Small part of Turkoglu's TPE for acquiring Atkins

 

How:

In the RealGM and ESPN trade machines, it works. Here's the link to the RealGM trade:

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5334785

The first thing to note is that I had to put Will Bynum instead of Chucky Atkins for trade checking purposes only (They both have the exact same salary). This is not a problem to doing the potential trade however. Chucky Atkins is simply trade restricted until Dec. 28th, and he does not have trade veto power. It also seems the TPE is not needed to add Chucky Atkins to the trade. It's awfully close to the difference allowed in trades with just Prince for the 3 Orlando Magic players so I was surprised by that. That just means the Magic have the option to use part of that TPE for Atkins if they wish to. Not sure it makes a difference if they use the TPE or not however, and if it is used, the trade would be constructed as technically two trades. One as Atkins for a small part of the TPE; then the Prince and nice fillers (cash, pick) for the 3 Orlando players.

Why for Orlando:

I really think Tayshaun Prince and the Orlando Magic is a perfect match. I am hoping the Magic will trade for a defensive wingman worthy of starting at SF for the Magic right now, and Prince is absolutely such a player. Slotting him in the starting lineup would make for a highly effective starting group, giving the wings and backcourt some much needed defensive presence and toughness. His offense also fits in very well. He hit 3's at 39% last season and has a career 36% 3-point mark. He is also a very low turnover and foul guy, something SVG has been looking for in his lineup.

The link to Hollinger's Scouting page for Tayshaun Prince is here:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=1724

Some excerpts:

  • Scouting report: A long, wiry guy with Inspector Gadget arms, Prince can play farther off his man than any perimeter player in the league and still challenge a shot. That enables him to defend very effectively even when it looks like he's not doing much. He also has a low foul rate and rarely gambles, relying on his length to do most of the damage. Prince was a second-team All-Defensive selection for three straight seasons before fizzling out last season, and if he's healthy and motivated he'll probably make it back.
  • Offensively, Prince handles the ball well for his size and rarely forces the action, so he provides a low-turnover initiator on a Pistons team with a lot of scorers that think shoot-first. He can shoot the ball well from outside when open and has the size to get off contested shots at the end of the shot clock. Unfortunately, he rarely winds up with easy looks because he doesn't have much explosion or deception and is far too thin to post up effectively. However, he is an explosive finisher in transition.
  • He maintained his other unique trait of rarely fouling, as his rate of 1.36 fouls per 40 minutes ranked second-lowest in the league (see chart). (for 2008-'09 season)
  • Offensively, Prince shot more jumpers last year but made a career-high 39.76 percent of his 3s. He has quietly become one of the better "point forwards" in the league, finishing third among small forwards in Pure Point Rating. (for 2008-'09 season)

What I love about this trade too is that we are leaving the immediate rotation completely alone. AJ and Bass are currently 3rd stringers/matchups-specific when the team is at full health and JJ would'nt be missed with Prince in the fold. Magic retain Gortat, the defensive minded C who gives very valueable minutes when Dwight is resting or battling the typical foul trouble.

Why I included Chucky Atkins is a two-fold reason. The first is that Detroit has 14 players right now. Trading Prince for 3 players leaves Detroit at an illegal roster size of 16 players. They also have quite a few rookies and important low salary players. Chucky is not really one of them, as Rodney Stuckey and Will Bynum are younger and have done very well at the PG. By receiving Anthony Johnson in trade, Detroit's need for Chucky will be even lower, so the two teams will simply swap the solid vet PGs and it will leave Detroit at a legal 15 player roster size.

The other reason is that the Magic have reported interest in trading for Atkins almost exactly one year ago as a backup PG. There is some familiarity with the Orlando Magic and Chucky Atkins as he played in Orlando 82 games in the 2000 season. Here's the link the reported by John Denton and analyzed brilliantly by our OPP's Ben Q. Rock:

http://www.orlandopinstripedpost.com/2008/12/7/683735/if-the-rumors-are-true-the

I would also force Detroit's hand to give up 3 million cash to help Orlando's tax situation and then a 1st round, unprotected pick so Orlando can also add a cheap but also young and full of potential player from the draft.

Why for Detroit:

I'm not going to get as detailed with Detroit's reasoning but it will also stand to make much sense for them too. They will drop Prince's high 2 year contract for a talented, young big man by the name of Brandon Bass. How do I know Detroit could probably want Bass? Because according to Bass' agent, Detroit was on his short list of teams to sign with this summer along with Orlando and Portland. The link:

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2009/07/detroit_pistons_will_target_br.html

Also, the Pistons are hurting up in the frontcourt. Charlie Villanueva is kind of alone there, and the Pistons are using less efficient players than Bass is; Wilcox, Brown, Maxiell, Wallace, etc. (Atleast Ben Wallace is having a sort of comeback season with the rebounds and hustle, but almost literally zero offense).

The Pistons could make use of a highly accurate shooter such as JJ Redick, who can also play point and facilitate a little and is a decent defender now. JJ is expiring tho, but the Pistons will have his rights and they may relish the expiring money coming off the books (along with Prince).

The Pistons can't get the trade to work without adding a player, giving up Chucky Atkins does not mean much to them and he is replaced by another solid vet backup PG, Anthony Johnson. His 2 million plus contract is also expiring, thus giving Detroit more salary cap relief/room.

The salary situation for Detroit after this trade is huge. They will have somewhere around 48.66 million in salaries this summer as opposed to 55.71 million they are currently slated to have. (*Both have Bynum coming off the books, someone they may want to resign cheaply. Kwame Brown, Ben Wallace, Anthony Johnson, JJ Redick are the others and they would let them drop or resign after spending FA money).

A Few Possible Barriers to a Trade:

  • Orlando will have a hefty payroll, as they are receving more money in trade, and AJ and JJ will expire off the books this summer and Prince will not (and even if JJ were resigned/extended at a low rate). The only positive is that Prince's contract is for only 2 more years; this season and next season; which fits in nicely with Vince Carter's 2 more years until his partially garantueed 3rd year option in the same summer that Prince is off the books (I'd resign them both then, but having options are nice). Orlando already did make a commitment to pay tax for our current and great team and go for the championship now. This would only be a 2 year commitment too.
  • Prince is one of the iron men of the league, who like our Dwight, had an extremely large consecutive streak of games played in good health. However, he has only played 3 games thus far this season with lower back problems that started late last season (ruptured disc in his back). Hollinger thinks Prince's defense had dropped a little bit from it but in good health, many suspect Prince will return to an elite level defensively. Detroit has not set a timetable of return for Prince yet, but he's listed day-to-day reportedly as opposed to out. They have been taking it very slow with him I think, which is very good for his health and for making sure his return is healthy consistently. I suspect if the Magic do have any interest in Prince, they will wait to see if he is playing healthy first which is perfectly fine, the Magic have more than two months before the trade deadline to see where Prince is at and make the deal happen. Atkins can't be traded for 7 more days anyways (written on Dec.21).
  • JJ Redick is among the fan favorites, counting Orlando Magic GM Otis Smith. He's also been playing well this season. He doesn't have the body type of a Pietrus or a Prince to defend great, but he's defending ok and is hustling out there and hitting a high percentage of shots. I'm in murky waters with the technicalities of JJ's situations after this season. The Magic are faced with possibly losing JJ in the summer tho, as he is expiring and has a QO this summer, meaning another team can bid for JJ, Orlando can match the high QO or build some kind of new deal to JJ's liking. Trading him to Detroit would allow Detroit to match the QO and new deals, but if they drop JJ, Orlando can come back in the picture for JJ's services or bid for him at risk of Detroit matching. I've tried trading Matt Barnes instead of JJ and the numbers were about 700k off. Barnes also has a cheaper 1.6-1.7 PO next season to return to Orlando that would be nice value for a good player for the Magic to hope he picks up the option and Orlando keeps him another year. If the Magic saw JJ as a deal breaker in such a deal (I don't, not for Prince), they could put Barnes in the deal instead of JJ and add Adonal Foyle or a s/t minimum contract player from the FA (Foyle can veto a trade he's in if he wants to). The only problem is that Detroit has to cut atleast 1 player, and I'm not sure there's anyone there they might do. They still need to package Atkins in such a deal. Maybe they can waive/buyout Ben Wallace or Kwame Brown? Permanent send down to a D league team for D. Summers? It will basically take a lot of creativity to put Barnes in instead of JJ Redick. I also like the depth chart much more with Barnes and Prince.   

Depth Chart for Orlando:

PG-  Jameer Nelson / Jason Williams / Chucky Atkins

SG-  Vince Carter      /  Mickael Pietrus

SF-  Tayshaun Prince / Matt Barnes

PF-  Rashard Lewis  /  Ryan Anderson

C-    Dwight Howard /   Marcin Gortat

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

4 recs  |  Comment 80 comments

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haha that second team could make the playoffs..

"It's difficult to win when you're outscored in every quarter." -Bill Walton

by betterthanburke on Dec 21, 2009 4:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I bet it all depends on how Gortat and Anderson would theoretically handle starter minutes. If their productions stays on the per 36 stats curve, then the unit would be surprisingly decent.

by derekk on Dec 21, 2009 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

at very best lol...

The Problem With Our Generation, Is That Our Future Isn't What It Used To Be

by JoeyBarz on Dec 22, 2009 1:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Tayshaun is injured

He was an ironman, but with a disc/back problem, no thank you…those issues just don’t tend to go away. Rather have AJ, JJ, and Bass still. I like the idea of getting a 1st round pick in any trade, but doubt DET would send an unprotected pick for these players anyway.

I think our team’s issues are not personnel, but effort and cohesion.

by magicfaninTN on Dec 21, 2009 7:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Let me add.

I like the detailed thinking and explanation. Thanks for putting in time for the write up.

by magicfaninTN on Dec 21, 2009 7:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It’s all good. I don’t mind reading negative thoughts on the trade at all. They’ll usually have plenty of good reasons to not do such a trade. I still love this trade however. Great point about the back issues being injuries that linger as that woul be problematic. With that, I can only counter that the Magic have a little more than 2 months right now to see where exactly Prince is health-wise. The Magic would also have the full medical review/test before they will accept it or not, in such a theoretical situation.

by derekk on Dec 21, 2009 8:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Np, it’s a joy to write this, and to have OPP readers’ take a look at it and input anything they want.
I lmao last night when JJ dropped 20. Worst timing ever to suggest him for a trade haha. I still don’t think he’s as valueable as Prince and the performance he could do for atleast 2 more years and in the playoffs (He does have a ring after all).

by derekk on Dec 22, 2009 8:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

It's tough, man.

At this point, given Prince’s age and back problem, I wouldn’t give up Redick for him. If this was a few years ago, this idea would have been a no-brainer for the Magic but things have changed.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 22, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

dont like this trade idea

jj is currently playing great right now. the magic doesnt really need prince coz jj,peaches,and barnes are good defenders. what the magic needs right now is a great pg if jameer nelson dont get back to his all star form but god willing if he does get back then trading is not a good idea right now.

in OTIS we TRUST...

by Hbkid on Dec 22, 2009 12:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Magic need to find a replacement for Vince Carter, not Jameer Nelson.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 22, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy Gay?

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 22, 2009 5:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not yet, but I would love to have him..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 22, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 22, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

don't see why.

VC is good, but on the downside of his career, and his shot selection is questionable. Rudy Gay is money..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 24, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really.

Rudy doesn’t pass the ball, doesn’t shoot the three very well, etc.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 26, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it.

If Jameer could create shots for others he wouldn’t need to pass. We have Ryan Anderson and Shard who shoot the 3.

The problem is Jameer doesn’t create and Dwight doesn’t dominate on O. A PG that is surrounded with this much talent around him should avg double digit assist.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 27, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nelson need not average double-digit assists, not when he has seconday playmakers (Carter and, to a lesser extent, Redick) around him

Plus, Van Gundy’s teams usually finish below-average in assists. Remember, there’s no statistically significant correlation between assists and winning.

In any case, here’s how Van Gundy-coached teams finished in assists in his coaching career. I omitted 05/06 because that’s the year Pat Riley booted him out so he could coach the team to the championship.

03/04 – 28th (out of 29)
04/05 – 11th (out of 30)
07/08 – 22nd (out of 30)
08/09 – 29th (out of 30)

And here are his team’s top assist-men in those years, both in terms of per-game and rate:

03/04 – Rafer Alston (4.5 per game), Dwyane Wade (25.1 AST Rt)
04/05 – Wade (6.8), Wade (31.0)
07/08 – Nelson (5.6), Nelson (31.1)
08/09 – Nelson (5.4), Nelson (32.1)

Additionally, all his teams had at least one other ballhandler, which deflates the leaders’ stats just a bit. Alston and Wade shared duties in 03/04, with Damon Jones helping Wade out the next year. Hedo Turkoglu helped out in both years with Orlando, while Carlos Arroyo (in 08) and Alston (in 09) also chipped in.

It’s a combination of a coach who likes having more than one creator and a point guard with a shoot-first mentality. And before decrying that second point, consider that Nelson might be one of the best pure shooters in the game. What’s wrong with shooting first if shooting is your best trait?

by Ben Q Rock on Dec 27, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If only more ppl can think like this haha.

by derekk on Dec 27, 2009 10:31 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

the bombs away 3 mentality

Is going to be down fall every year. Dynasty’s aren’t built on 3 pt shooting. That is the problem, we need to work the ball inside out or create more shots from dribble penetration..

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 27, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Magic win with defense, not threes.

And it’s not going to be the downfall of Orlando when it’s the most efficient way to play basketball. Dynasty’s are usually built on defense and that’s what the Magic are built on. I don’t understand what you’re concern is. There’s no issue.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 27, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

When Nelson is in peak form, he is dribble penetrating from the top of the key a ton with PnRs. He’s not there yet, he’s still doing pass offs. He’ll get there I think. And Vince is a attacker when he’s at his best (big games so far have been as such for VC so far), Dwight is the primary inside attack also, even if you’re stopping him you’re doubling or messing up your spacing on D, then finally the players who get kicke off the 3 line or see a wide lane can sometimes drive, but that is where extra ball movement or more driving hard should happen understandibly.

by derekk on Dec 27, 2009 10:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

I'm waiting to see if Jameer can play at his peak this year.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 28, 2009 4:23 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet he does. I think it will take some time but it will happen.

by derekk on Dec 28, 2009 11:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Hope so.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 28, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

M Petrice Can replace carter for short stints. In a pinch you could play Anderson. For a beefier kind of SG use Bass. He can get to the hole. Can shot the 12 to 15 footer. Sounds kind of strange, I know. I would really like to see him in against the celtics if Garrnet and Wallace play together.

by domprime1 on Dec 24, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't really see it from Detroit's perspective

And I’m not sure we’re looking to blow up the roster again so soon after bringing in four new guys who are having some trouble, at times, assimilating.

Assuming Prince was in good health and everyone would click, this might work but I just don’t think it’s a gamble we need to take right now. We might not have two shutdown wing defenders anymore but the number of teams that can throw two great scorers at us can be counted on zero fingers, frankly. The Celtics of two years ago, maybe, but Ray Allen doesn’t need to be guarded by anyone better than JJ any more, last year’s playoffs proved that.

I want to see what this team does before I start thinking about changes. I really like the potential in this playing group and I think with a healthy Nelson and a year of chemsitry, we can get back to, and win, the Finals without changing anything. If it doesn’t work out, then we look at what went wrong and what we need to do to compete.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 22, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't like the trade idea for a few reasons, even though it was a well-reasoned/written post.

- Orlando is giving a tad too much in the trade.
- Orlando is getting a little older in the process.
- Although I like Tayshaun Prince, he’s 30 and his back injury is a cause for concern.
- Orlando isn’t addressing it’s main priority, which is to find a replacement for Vince Carter.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 22, 2009 5:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

they need to upgrade the back-up PG

but that is priority #2.

"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account

by Wmillion on Dec 22, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with that.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 22, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i wish

eddy r and ben would write something about what they want for the magic to acquire via a trade this season. a trade that is possible and something that could defeat the lakers. that would be fun to read and talked about

in OTIS we TRUST...

by Hbkid on Dec 23, 2009 5:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Can I just guess and say that

I doubt Eddy and Ben want to see any player movement during the season. Or at least, they doubt any such movement is realistic enough to spend time positing about…..barring injuries.

On the other hand I too would like to know what they think and bet it would be a comment-rich post(s).

by magicfaninTN on Dec 23, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, E already told us sort of. Hold onto all of our players for continuity and the playoff run. In the future, look to make nice trade packages for a star worth of replacing the aging VC. It’s a strategy that makes sense to do nothing short of steal deals in the meantime. The question is can the Magic pull off such a trade for a star, and if a current trade would be worth it (cough Tayshaun Prince cough) :P

by derekk on Dec 23, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This season? Honestly, Orlando doesn't need to do anything unless injuries occur.

This off-season? That’s different.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 23, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

thats true

i know eddy and ben dont like a trade right now judging from their comments.hehehe but for the magic fans and just for christmas hope they would make an exception

in OTIS we TRUST...

by Hbkid on Dec 23, 2009 11:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The trade

Are you out of your mind? Nelson – has been , Prince-has been, JWill-has been, Carter-has been. The Magic already has enough has beens without trading the up and coming for more has beens. With your logic we need to go after Shaq. Prince? Chucky? You have got to be kidding? May I suggest Bosh instead of Prince. Still need a PG.

by far-way on Dec 23, 2009 3:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nelson is the farthest thing from a has been in terms of age AND NBA mileage.

by derekk on Dec 23, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

nelson

Nelson could not even guard his grandmother, dribbles too much and makes bad decisions. When he was an all star he was shooting good. That’s it. He will start tonight and screw everything up like he did in the play-off. Nelson could be a good sixth man off the bench. I’m sorry, I do not see Nelson as the savior of the Magic nor Prince.

by far-way on Dec 23, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The stats don't support anything you just said.

But thanks for posting.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Dec 23, 2009 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

heh, its all good. You have your opinions, I have mine, and the Magic have theirs. Luckily the latter is the one making the decisions and got the win tonight against Houston.

by derekk on Dec 23, 2009 9:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing you said is fact.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 24, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, Nelson isn't a has-been.

Neither are any of the other players you stated. The Orlando Magic don’t need Chris Bosh. As great as a player he is, the #1 priority for Otis Smith will be to eventually find a replacement for Vince Carter.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 23, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's just not likely. Who?!

A replacement for VC? Who? Without being able to get under the cap in the next several years who in the league are we going to get to replace (1) slashing, (2) 3pt shooting, and (3) play-making passing…..that takes someone/something we have to offer in exchange? My thought is that it will take some combo of players for all that. Not many 20-5-5 guys in the L that teams let go of.

by magicfaninTN on Dec 23, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, but I bet we could finsd an 18/5/3 guy.

Especially if we let him shoot 39% shots at will in order to get that 18.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Dec 23, 2009 9:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

That’s funny (even though I wish it wasn’t). You’re probably right though….

but don’t distract Eddy. I want his response. :-)

by magicfaninTN on Dec 23, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Otis Smith will find a way. I'm convinced of it.

The Orlando Magic have a ton of assets.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 24, 2009 2:27 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We cross that bridge when we get to it

It’s at least 6 months away, probably 18, maybe 24-30. Who knows where the NBA will be at by then or who’ll be looking to move. Say Dwyane Wade rejects the Heat, moves to the Knicks/Nets/someone, doesn’t get anywhere and that team blows up their roster again – suddently Carter’s expiring 4m guaranteed looks pretty attractive in a straight swap.

Who knows what the future holds.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 24, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Look at Prince. He's not coming back from his injuries.

He’s got the same skinny build that derailed guys like McGrady and Penny Hardaway. And now he’s got those McGrady-esque back injuries. Guys like that always age poorly… I wish it wasn’t true, but it’s true. Maybe Prince will overcome it, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Dec 23, 2009 9:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I have to hope for him to get healthy and playing well before the trade deadline in 2 months. I would bet he does, but you have just as much reason for now too.

by derekk on Dec 23, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I'm sure he will -- in the short run.

But in the long run, these back problems tend to recur.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Dec 23, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ESPN's Bill Simmons wrote of a similar trade idea with Prince going to his Celtics instead. :P

Under the Detroit Pistons section:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/091223&sportCat=nba

Expiring contracts of Tony Allen/Scalabrine/JR Giddens (none with the skill of JJ or even AJ for that matter), 3 Million Cash, and Big Baby (Bass > Big Baby). I don’t see Detroit biting on that at all, and even many of Simmons’ trade ideas made me lol, including this one because that trade would be illegal. Detroit would have too many players in the roster. But I did like a few of them, and this one would be brilliant for Boston; and why Orlando should be the one making a move for Prince (assuming good health returns before deadline).

by derekk on Dec 23, 2009 9:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

They could just agree to release a few guys

With the Celtics giving them the money to buy out their contracts.

by eltharion_doa on Dec 24, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

why is everyone about prince?

prince is old. lets talk about nicolas batum =)

in OTIS we TRUST...

by Hbkid on Dec 24, 2009 1:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hehe

by derekk on Dec 24, 2009 5:08 AM EST via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Excluding Wade, is the best available replacement for VC

Joe Johnson? Johnson’s a 21/5/5 guy this season on 45% FG and 34% 3pt (carer avg 37%). He’s been a 21/5/5 guy all 5 seasons with ATL and is in his prime at 28 yrs old. VC still has another year on his contract (2 but Orl can opt out of the final year) and Johnson is a free agent after this season. Is he unhappy in ATL? I think he would be an awesome fit on the Magic. He’s got the numbers, the size, the defense, the experience, the durability and he’s still got lots of mileage left in those legs. Thoughts?

by Warlando on Dec 24, 2009 8:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Johnson has no reason to leave the Hawks.

A year or two ago, maybe. But at this point, the Hawks are a definite playoff team and a borderline title contender — the consensus no. 4 squad in the East. And they’re most likely going to get better with age. If Johnson’s not happy leading a team like that, one has to wonder what he wants.

It's a good thing Larry Bird's initials weren't MJ. '80s basketball was confusing enough -- Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Marles Jarkley, Mominique Jilkins... Makeem Jolajuwon...

by 3.3seconds on Dec 24, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, Im starting to feel like that too for him. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

by derekk on Dec 24, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Johnson, hypothetically speaking, would be an intriguing replacement for Carter.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Dec 26, 2009 3:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He probably is

There are a couple other interesting options, though. John Salmons (13/3/2, 35% 3PT) has an ETO in Chicago, Kyle Korver (2/1/1, 50% 3PT, but has only played 51 minutes this year) is an UFA, Roger Mason (8/2/2, 38.5% 3PT) is an UFA…none of them are Joe Johnson-level players, but they’re decent perimeter shooters who could fit in on the Magic.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Jan 6, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Roger Mason a lot

In addition to being a skilled role-player, he’s a high-character guy. I know Otis Smith takes that into consideration.

Then again, Mason might be redundant with J.J. Redick around, assuming Orlando re-signs him.

by Ben Q Rock on Jan 6, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Mason more as a backup point guard than a shooting guard. He gets beat up defensively when matched up against wings. Needs to play alongside a playmaking wing while at the point though, but Vince can do that.

by NBR on Jan 6, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Prince returned to the lineup today!

by derekk on Dec 27, 2009 4:25 PM EST via mobile reply actions   0 recs

The Carter replacement may not even be a starter in the NBA today.

Joe Johnson did not average 20ppf until his fifth year, Ray Allen took four Dirk took 3, even Kobe took 4. Who knows who the next top 10 or 20 player may be (probably Otis knows?)..

by NC Magic Fan on Dec 27, 2009 5:16 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Im not gonna make a new post for this, but Ill throw a different version of the trade idea out there.
  • Brandon Bass- Same reasons as above; not in rotation.
  • Marcin Gortat- We will lose the 25 yr old C this summer in trade anyways.
  • Anthony Johnson OR Matt Barnes- (Orlando Magic’s choice)
                    * My Choice: Barnes so he can get PT in DET atleast.

FOR

  • Tayshaun Prince- Same reasons as above. Playing again now too. 2 year Contract.
  • Ben Wallace- He is having a sort of comeback season defensively; averging about 10 boards and 1+ steals and blocks per game in a throwback to his younger days. Play him for 8 minutes a game and he can defend and man the paint well. Will appreciate the contender status and keeping his health up. Expiring Contract.
  • 3 Million Cash- Help the tax situation.
     
    Detroit addresses its weak frontcourt issue all in one single trade. Two young, high PER/efficient big men. We know they wanted Bass, Why wouldn’t they want Gortat over the likes of Wilcox and Brown at C? Barnes would be a good wing player to start/depth if Magic send him over instead of AJ.
    This trade keeps JJ, who may seem to have some long term value to Orlando, whereas Gortat being traded in the summer is already written on the wall. It keeps the young JJ, but I actually feel the Magic lose less with the original trade, so the 3 Million Cash is a must AND ONE of these following; in order of most wanted (all fit in trade):
  • Austin Daye- 6-11 SF rookie can shoot the 3 ball crazy good. Very high potential. Cheap Rookie Contract!
  • Will Bynum- No, he can’t shoot it from 3. He’s good in the 2pt range tho, and he takes a large percentage of his shots as drives with a high FT rate. Magic already played with an inefficient 3pnt shooter just fine; Rafer Alston. He’s got very solid assist rates and I would value his forays inside as a dynamic to all the 3pnt shooting. Long term backup to Jameer Nelson. PER: 14.97, Expiring Contract if things don’t work out.
  • Unprotected 1st Round Pick 2010: Pray for a lottery selection instead of a playoff seed, or pick another year.
  • End of list really.. But if Magic like rookies Jonas Jerebko or DeJuan Summers (6-8 3pnt shooter) than one of them also fits in a deal instead.

by derekk on Dec 28, 2009 5:22 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I’d love to see the Magic add another quality defensive wing. Tayshaun Prince would be an excellent target.

Unfortunately, I don’t see Detroit being interested in this type of trade package. I think they’d be best off with expiring contracts for Prince but I don’t see them doing that either. I reckon they’re going to try trading Prince for talent .. and only in a case where the incoming talent is seen as a superior player to Prince which I doubt Joe D views Bass as.

Tayshaun Prince is an interesting target though … maybe if Gortat was included, or future first round picks … might need a third team. Anyway, I like the idea of Orlando trying to acquire Prince or some another quality defensive wing who’s capable of playing 30 minutes a night.

by NBR on Jan 6, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Acquiring Prince would be redundant and risky, given his age, back troubles, and skill-set.

Then again, acquiring another defensive wing player wouldn’t hurt. Never can have enough of them.

I write for Orlando Pinstriped Post and have a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Jan 7, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Detroit is trading Prince for younger talent then DET is the one sending out the picks.

Not the other way around.

"We'll figure it out. The sky's not falling." ~Otis Smith

by magicfaninTN on Jan 7, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sounds cool

I like Prince, he’d do well in Orlando. In fact, I’m having some trouble thinking of wings who can match up to people like Wade & LeBron.

That and we’d see Lewis back at the 4 spot where he can help drag defenders to the perimeter for Howard to take the paint.

by Alighieri on Jan 10, 2010 12:31 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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