Tracy McGrady, Magical Return?
Just about 6 seasons ago, former Orlando Magic and disgruntled G/F Tracy McGrady was traded to HOU along with F Juwan Howard, G Tyronn Lue and G Reece Gaines. After suffering a 21-61 season record in the 03-04 season, ORL had the #1 pick in the 2004 NBA that brought in Magic F/C Dwight Howard. Apparently Tracy McGrady did not want to wait for Howard's potential and he was already having problems with font office management (particularly former ORL Magic GM John Weisbrod.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQKfqfN2k7U&feature=related
What was supposed to be a dynamic 1-2 combo alongside Houston Rockets C Yao Ming has turned into a nightmare for Houston fans. They started off fast almost defeating the Mavericks in the 04-05 playoffs but then came up short. In the following seasons Tracy McGrady's career had been plagued by injuries in almost every part of his body.
Today as I was reading through my daily NBA headlines, rumors, etc. I ran into an article from Yahoo! Sports that had this on it:
"The confrontation had been building for weeks, sources say, and underscores a lingering uneasiness between the organization and McGrady. Adelman and McGrady had a dispute last February over the way McGrady informed the team that he had chosen to undergo season-ending knee surgery. Instead of telling them directly, McGrady released the information to the public. At the time, sources say, McGrady felt betrayed in the belief that members of the organization were publicly and privately doubting the validity of his injury.
[The trust has broken down between them,]a source close to McGrady and Adelman said. [There’s some work to be done there.]
McGrady, 30, is in the final year of his contract and is being paid a league-high $23.2 million this season. He’s had a history of injuries with Houston and questions about his toughness and leadership have always been debated inside and outside the organization. In his six seasons with the Rockets, McGrady has missed 125 games because of back and knee problems. Once the Rockets advanced to Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals without McGrady last season, there came evidence that the Rockets employ a more balanced lineup capable of wining without him.
Sources say McGrady has started to wonder whether the Rockets want him back with this team, or whether they’ve been motivated to let him sit and collect on insurance money. Assuming that McGrady is covered under the NBA’s Temporary Total Disability (TTD) insurance policy, Houston can start to collect up to 80 percent of his prorated per-game salary after he’s missed 41 consecutive games. McGrady sat out his 42nd straight game Wednesday in Minnesota, and the league insurance plan would reimburse the Rockets for any additional missed games."
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-mcgradyinjury112009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
With McGrady becoming a FA in next year's 2010 offseason, could he take the Vince Carter route and come back home for the MLE? Would fans want him back home after admitting that he quit on the team in the 03-04 season?
I personally feel like he COULD come back and be that guy for us that Hedo was. He provides height, playmaking ability, shooting/scoring skills, underrated defense and veteran leadership abilities. The problem with McGrady as anyone may attest is his heart and willingness to win games as well as his health, although this passed offseason he has been recovering from what is said to be a very successful microfracture surgery and he has since been working out in Chicago with world renoun trainer Tim Grover of Attack Athletics who has treated players such as Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade amongst many more names.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGNf4DLBmaU
If he takes the step back and just plays team defense and makes the correct plays without wanting or having to score 30+ ppg, could he be the missing piece for us? I feel like Van Gundy can harness his attitude and maybe VC can get him to play the way he can with this team. With the Howard factor opening up oppotunites for McGrady, I feel like he can be a very affective player in our system.
This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.
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I dunno
I’d want proof that he’s worked on his attitude and he’s happy to play second fiddle (or, what, fifth fiddle?) to the others. I don’t really hate on him for quitting on an awful team – sometimes the frustration just kills you, and only the best and rare are like Garnett and keep killing themselves for bad teams – so in the right situation, and for the right price, I’d take him back.
But he’d have to buy into the team philosophy, be happy being the second, third, fourth or fifth option, be happy being the sixth man, be happy playing hard defense, be happy getting coached hard, be happy being paid like a journeyman…can he accept all of that? Maybe. But if we’re not sure, we shouldn’t risk chemistry just because he’s talented.
I’d like to see him on the Suns, for what it’s worth. If anyone can keep him on the court, their medical team can. And he’d be great with Hill, Nash and Stoudamire in an up tempo offense.
I'll have to agree with you
I think he’s got to show what he’s worth this season in order for us to possibly sign him in the off season. With Foyle, JWill and Redick coming off the books, that may just be enough for us to offer the MLE. If he takes it and he buys into our team philosophy, I don’t see why it can’t work out for us with him aboard. He’s a point-forward that can give us the same advantage (minus 2 inches of height) that Hedo gave us. Plus, Vince is here, he’s an adidas brother with Dwight (Im sure that ties in SOMEHOW lol), and he’s a veteran that can handle the ball and play above average defense at his height of 6-8. It’d be a good way to end his career, I just don’t see why not as long as he stays injury free.
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
by magic12ball on Nov 20, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Too many if's with McGrady.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
He deftly has to prove he has maturity and game left on both sides of the floor like you guys said, but there is alot of evidence that suggests TMac could come back.
Familiarity with the franchise and even some few players/staff. I don’t think the divorce was too ugly either and a lot of time has passed.
He could be easily available, as in Magic can probably make an offer despite being over the cap, trade or contract-wise. They’d prolly want a 1,2 yr deal, low money, having the contender factor helping the money issue lower.
Rumors that the Magic did indeed look to trade for TMac. Obviously not enough, as his cousin is here instead, but it means they very well could have interest.
This could be like the veteran All Stars team of the decade anchored by the youthful franchise player/center Dwight Howard. I don’t know if I’d want TMac yet, but I think this is a very viable theory.
"Rumors that the Magic did indeed look to trade for TMac"
Please do elaborate, a link would be very appreciated although just words to prove that management did look to trade for him would be enough for me because that would mean that Otis believes in him somehow and I truly trust Otis.
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
by magic12ball on Nov 20, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions
I'm almost positive they almost pried him from Houston before turning their attention to Vince instead, but I'll look it up.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 21, 2009 12:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yup, here's the link. Magic were looking at VC and T-Mac. This story was posted mere hours before the VC deal went down.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 21, 2009 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
wow, Im sad/happy at the same time no homo
I personally would like to see him back in blue but its all up to Otis. It seems like he’s more and more “out the door” for HOU as the days progress
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/6732407.html
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
Hard to get a feel for the Houston situtation
I guess the favourable T-Mac read is that he’s fit, and the Rockets are trying to keep him sidelined to collect his insurance paycheck. The favourable Rockets read is that they want to make sure he’s fit before committing to him and disrupting their team chemistry.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 21, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
It's a little bit of both, in my opinion.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Would he be happy coming off the bench? Would he be happy as the 5th option? Would he be happy making the minimum or the BAE? Can he still play?
Lots of questions to be answered. If they’re all in the affirmative, though, I don’t see why the Magic wouldn’t want him back. Fewer touches for him, yes, but also: more open looks. Imagine T-Mac taking Pietrus’ current role with the team. You can at least count on him not to step on the endline 2 or 3 times a night, right?
Risky, but potentially rewarding, although I do think the Magic need to add some youth to their backcourt.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
They do need to groom a backup for him, yes.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
Bench???
A healthy T-Mac is miles ahead of our existing SF’s
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Nov 21, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
What if we sent Gortat (Houston's prized offseason target)
for TMAC? He could start, we move Bass behind Howard and have another strong forward?
Bucs: Raheem will become relevant when his actions speak louder than his words. Gators: National Champions! Magic: Stop getting injured!
wow...
imagine
Jameer
Vince
Tracy
Rashard
Dwight
some scoring there…
and 2/5 Zombie Raptors
Bucs: Raheem will become relevant when his actions speak louder than his words. Gators: National Champions! Magic: Stop getting injured!
Talk about stretching opponents
ok it’s late I’m going to bed!
Bucs: Raheem will become relevant when his actions speak louder than his words. Gators: National Champions! Magic: Stop getting injured!
lol
Idk about Tmac these days but Carter doesnt look like no zombie so far
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
They'd probably be better off just waiting for him to hit free agency, instead of giving up actual players for him.
GIven his huge salary ($23 million!) it’d take much more than just Gortat to get TMac. Pietrus and Jameer would have to go too, which is obviously much too much to give up for TMac.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
yeah I would too
If I was Otis (which Im not, but if I was GM), I think I would also wait until next season to get him for as low of a price as possible. I’m almost certain that HOU would take JJ, Gortat and possibly AJ (3rd pg insurance) and whatever else it takes for Tracy (possibly a 2nd rounder as well?).
Scoring would be there, veteran experience is there, possibly better play making ability is there with Tracy and Vince being able to create plays for others and even themselves if needed. Defense….Im not so sure because Pietrus is a great defender but TMac has always been a very underrated and effective defender.
Idk, I’d like for it to happen and on paper it looks great (also a great story for the media: Florida cousins together again etc.) but then again, Im only a fan and there are certain parameters of the GM game that only Otis sees.
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
lets play make believe
How bout giving Gortat, anderson, & JJ for TMAC. Given that TMAC take 10 million.
I want Gortat for Battier
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Nov 21, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Our lineup would be huge (aside from Jameer lol)
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Nov 21, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, if Battier was younger, sure.
But I’d be hesitant with that offer and I’m sure Daryl Morey would be too, in his own regard.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I think every Raptors fan would perform a mass suicide if Carter & T-crack won a championship for Orlando
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Nov 21, 2009 12:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
So...another reason to do it?
Love you, Raps fans!
by eltharion_doa on Nov 21, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah the Raps really should have kept those 2 together
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Nov 21, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
It was financially impossible.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
For Lewis, right? :)
I am the world's best basketball player! *
* Among those with no skills whatsoever
How about Vince Carter? Oh, the irony.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Bleh, wait for free agency if you want to explore the possibility.
If he wants to sign for the veteran’s minimum (which he won’t) or the bi-annual exception (which he won’t), I wouldn’t care. It’d be a low risk/high reward signing. I still would be skeptical of acquiring him, though.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Seriously, why would the Magic want to deal with this again?
Say what you want about John Weisbrod and his apparent ineptness at being a GM, but back in the day, he tried to hold McGrady accountable for his words and actions and McGrady bristled at the authority. Now lately, it appears that the Rockets management is doing something very similar with McGrady and he is bristling once again. He’s now 30 years old and is still acting the same way as he was when he was younger (read that as immature and adversarial). Even if he signed with the Magic for the minimum (which he won’t), I’m still not sure if he would be worth it just because he would probably be an annoying presence in the locker room. He would try to be a leader on the team, but he doesn’t really have the ability to be a good one and would only succeed in disrupting the dynamic that Dwight and Jameer has established.
He’s still a special talent, but he would be best off with the Knicks or any other of the lower tier teams where he can showcase his skills without too much interference from other players. I don’t think he is a loser or anything, but I definitely believe he is not champion material.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
Yeah, I don't think it's worth the trouble.
I like T-Mac, but I don’t think it’d work with Orlando.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
No T-Mac is not a leader nor does he want to be one
That is the problem with him all along. he is the highest paid guy on the team but doesnt want the pressure of being a captain. The leadership is already in place with Orlando so he would relish being a role player which allow him to be play but not take the heat .
I’d welcome him to the Magic if the price is right. He shouldnt want to much because of all the injuries and his age.
T-Mac 10’ FA Make it so Otis
I probably know Judo! How many of you can make the same boast?
by Souwantmyname on Nov 21, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Orlando doesn't need him.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
You know, this conversation sounds similar to the one people had a few months ago about VC
It’s amazing what playing for a legit contender will do for a veteran player’s psyche, though. Just sayin
I still remember the days when McGrady was widely considered an heir apparent to MJ.
Now he’s just a broken shell of a player. I will be surprised if he gets any serious offers next season.
"We got more gongs than the break dancing robot that caught on fire"-Homer J. Simpson
No, he'll get offers
If he’ll play off the bench and prove he’s still got it. The only reason Iverson hasn’t been picked up is that he refuses to come off the bench – talented guys will always find a spot in this league, if they’re willing to knuckle down and work hard, and whatever you can say about T-Mac, you can’t deny his ridiculous talent.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 21, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
He's talented, no doubt about that.
But, he’s kind of in the same boat as Amare this year. He’s going to have to play first and show he’s still got it before the offers come.
"We got more gongs than the break dancing robot that caught on fire"-Homer J. Simpson
i would not feel bad making a wager...
that tracy has just as much talent as kobe. what separates the two is most likely the work ethic/desire to win.
And injuries
There’s not all that much T-Mac can do about his back.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2009 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
I think the injuries may be related to the work ethic issue. I don’t think T-Mac took conditioning seriously when he was younger, and he’s paying for it now.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Maybe
His back condition is degenerative though, and any long term back problems cause muscular and joint problems in your legs as you compensate. Conditioning can help, but anyone with a serious back injury is in for a lifetime of niggling leg problems, and that’s what T-Mac has suffered.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2009 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
You know, he was always a really skinny guy.
He listed at 6’8", 205 in his prime. (And I wouldn’t be shocked if he was a real 6’8"… he was listed as that tall when he entered the draft, so you know he probably gained an inch or two after that.) Moreover, just LOOK at the guy — he was skinny. Like, Penny Hardaway skinny.
Players that thin who rely on their athleticism tend to get hurt awfully frequently. If anything, McGrady had it better than Hardaway. (Or, even worse, Shawn Livingston.) I mean, it’s not always true. (His current situation aside, Tayshaun Prince has been very durable.) But back condition or no back condition, I defy anyone to look at a picture of a young McGrady and think, “this guy looks sturdy.”
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
I defy anyone to look at a current picture of McGrady...
and think, “this guy looks skinny.” lol. wink
by magicfaninTN on Nov 23, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
Touche.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
No, Thanks
T-Mac is in the same crowd with Shaq, Steve Francis and Grant Hill: Players who refused or were unable to be great in Orlando, then left town. Now that Orlando is great without them, we should welcome them home?
Naaaah. “You’re dead to me, Fredo”.
Unable to be great? Shaq was great with Orlando, as was Tracy.
To me, Steve Francis didn’t exist so he doesn’t count in the discussion.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I don't care what anyone says.
T-Mac had one of the most impressive four year stretches of individual basketball I’ve ever seen.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
God, I hope not.
That guy was a total jerk, he ran the team into the ground, and he forced us to basically give him away. You can talk all you want about “talent” — decision-making comes before talent. McGrady never had that; there’s no excuse for the kind of shooting percentages he posted, or for his feeble attempts to run the point from the SG position. And he’s gotten worse, at least as a shooter, since going to Houston. Even if he fit into the team on an ego basis, he would do more harm than good because of his horrible style of basketball.
And that’s not even considering the injuries.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
T-Mac's shooting percentages?
He shot over 45% from the floor and 35% from 3’s despite being the team’s ONLY offensive option for the first 3 years he was here (his 4th and final year was subpar, but he was dealing with the back issues all year and the team surrounding him was even worse than it was before). And he averaged around 5 assists all 4 years, again, despite being the only offensive option (unless you count Pat Garrity). That’s not even counting all the assist opportunities that were blown by teammates that he kept trying to pass to.
T-Mac certainly isn’t the player he used to be, but let’s not let bitterness lead us to believe that the player he was did an awful lot for this team. He (and the whole franchise) was hamstrung by the Grant Hill contract, and though he certainly had to take some blame for the way the departure went down, I do not blame him. He was approaching 10 years in the league and did not want to go through an entire rebuilding stretch.
All that said, I’d only want T-Mac if he was obtainable for the MLE.
I wouldn't even spend the MLE on him
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
Too much.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Rasheed Wallace? Bass?
These guys got most or all of the MLE from great teams. T-Mac even on a gimp leg all year still averaged 15.6 pts, 5 dimes and 4.4 boards (his FG% was awful, but his 3pt% was 38%). IF T-Mac is healthy and is willing to take a lesser role (i.e. Wallace), I think he’s certainly worth the MLE for someone.
I actually would like to see him on PHX if they can keep Nash going for another two years and if Amare’s still there. Playmaking wing to go along with those guys could be fun to watch
That's fine but it's too much for the Magic.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Yeah, his first three years were okay...
…but the fourth year was more representative of what he’s done ever since. Were you around at the time? A large part of the reason the rest of the team wasn’t more efficient on offense was because McGrady insisted on taking a bunch of isos, acting like Michael Jordan. And yeah, when you’re acting like Michael Jordan, you’re going to get a lot of assists.That doesn’t mean you’re finding high-percentage shots, for people, it just means those people are taking the low-percentage shots you’re giving them.
Anyway, 2002-03 was the last year NcGrady did a team more good than harm. That was seven years ago.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Okay?
They replayed a game from the 2001 playoffs against Milwaukee on NBA TV(and yes, I’ve been “around” the Magic every year since 1994). Do you want to know what the Magic’s rotation was??? Andrew DeClerq, John Amechi at Center. Bo Outlaw and Pat Garrity at PF. T-Mac at SF. Mike Miller (rookie season) and Dee Brown at SG. Darrell and Troy Hudson at PG.
Take a look at that lineup there. You tell me where any of the talent comes outside of a 21 year old Mike Miller. I watched this game after reading this thread and thinking that maybe I was remembering that team differently. But no, a lot of people really do not remember at all how good he was (and not just statistically). He was continually hitting guys for open shots, drawing double teams and kicking out or feeding Bo Outlaw and DeClerq for easy shots (now them converting those were a different story…). If T-Mac was on a team with at least a moderate amount of talent, he could’ve averaged 30/10/5 easy without also playing D on the opposing team’s best perimeter player night-in and night-out.
Those Magic teams had no business making the playoffs any of those years, yet they did. T-Mac carried them, and I’m sorry, but if T-Mac was some team-killing cancer like some people like to make him out to be, those players wouldn’t have played that hard and rallied around him like they did. That certainly didn’t happen for Doc Rivers in Boston until he got 3 HOF caliber players, so I’m reluctant to say it was Doc’s doing.
Yeah
He was money until he finally got sick of carrying the team. Armstrong could always play, Miller had some talent as you say, and Garrity could at least shoot, but otherwise wow, our teams from back then stank.
Although I always loved Bo’s toughness.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 27, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
I loved Bo, and Darrell was always great, but he played way above his talent level. I guess that’s why everyone pulled for him so much.
It’s funny, in that Bucks game, Miller didn’t play at all down the stretch while crusty Dee Brown was putting in work. It’s the game that Ray Allen sent into OT with that monster dunk over a couple Magic players (including T-Mac). That dunk haunted me for a while.
The Eastern Conference was watered down while Tracy was in Orlando.
It wasn’t that hard for McGrady to lead the Magic to the playoffs, let’s be frank.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
With that line-up?
That’s still something special, even with the conference as weak as you mention. When they got to the playoffs, they always competed against much better teams. It’s not like he was Shareef Abdur-Rahim or something. Everyone loved T-Mac in this town until that 4th year (Juwan Howard was our 2nd best player, which says something) when he was hurt and the team was just awful and again, both sides let things deteriorate.
Also, that game against Milwaukee I mentioned? Elimination game, T-Mac gets 42, 10 dimes, 8 boards, 3 steals, 2 blocks. And the Magic still barely won in OT with that kind of performance. I know I’m biased, I loved T-Mac and I still think he was the best player in the NBA in those 3 years before his back became a problem, but you have to give the dude more credit than just saying the East was watered down.
It's not special.
Barely getting into the playoffs is isn’t always something to be proud of. Only in 2002-2003 does Tracy have an argument as the best player in the NBA, but not in his other three years with the team. I give credit to McGrady where credit is due, but facts are facts, the East was watered down. Not that hard to get into the postseason during that time.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Ultimately, we're not tallking about McGrady as he was early in his tenure with the Magic.
We’re talking about McGrady in his last year with the Magic, then with Houston. Dude developed a lot of bad habits, it’s as simple as that, and as apparent when you look at the stats. Wish he hadn’t developed a lot of bad habits. Wish he would overcome them. But it’s too late for the former, and probably too late for the latter as well.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Also...
Two years ago Houston went on a 22 game winning streak led by McGrady, more than half of those coming after Yao Ming went out. Stop hating.
Led by the Rockets' impressive supporting cast, you mean.
I remember that streak. The thing with the Rockets is, they have so many players who make 10-12 points a game at a high percentage, they can make up for a low-percentage “star”. (And another star who’s injured a lot of the time.) Ultimately, that’s what it’s really about. Scoring efficiently, finding the open man for the easy shot, not low-percentage isos in volume.
Does the opposing team’s fear of a guy like McGradyhelp those other guys find their open shots? Sure. But that doesn’t mean McGrady actually IS an effective scorer — it just means he’s TREATED like an effective scorer.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
That winning streak said more about the Houston Rockets than it did about T-Mac.
We’re talking about a franchise that it’s in the cutting edge of advanced statistics, with a general manager (Daryl Morey) that fully devotes the organization to the numbers and tries to find ways of maxing out the potential of his teams with the personnel he has at the time.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
And I bet the farm that Morey does NOT resign TMac.
by magicfaninTN on Nov 29, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
He definitely won't.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I see you and raise.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
Call.
‘course, I don’t really have a farm…….so, I don’t have a lot to lose here.
by magicfaninTN on Nov 29, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, but NO THANKS!
I’m with ER on this one: Too many questions leaning the wrong way for us to consider. Guys, we have a GREAT team here… NOW! The right balance in age AND experience, with multiple weapons at EACH position. The Magic certainly do NOT need the aggravation… plus ANOTHER injury-prone player (AKA Jameer 2).
And P.L.E.A.S.E… ENOUGH with the “trading people”; like they’re baseball cards, or mere pawns in a chess game. These are REAL people with REAL dreams and aspirations; with families and homes they would like to keep and grow in, thank you very much! And SPECIALLY regarding J.J., a guy who’s WORKED his BUTT off to become the great sixth man he is today! Against all sorts of personal attacks and ridicule by BOTH fans and critics alike. The Magic have certainly NOT worked PATIENTLY with JJ over these past 5 years, just to trade him for the first available game piece in the market! And NOW that we’ve finally hit paydirt… you want to trade him? and FOR WHAT? … a 30-year old with 80-year old legs? PLEASE!!!
The NBA is a business
And the players get paid an awful lot of money to be part of that business; and part of accepting that money is accepting you can be traded.
As for JJ, I don’t think anyone’s seriously considering trading him for T-Mac but if we can move him to make our team better and give us a better chance at a championship, the moral consideration of whether it’s right to send someone with “dreams and aspirations” away would take approximately 2 seconds of my time.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I say trade Meer next season once we win the championship this season.
He is a great fascilitator, shoots the ball well and can drive on anyone. The cons, he can’t stay healthy for squat and the only thing worse than his health is his defense. JWill is still a starter in this league in my book and could supplant Meer, much like Skip did last year (due to injury). Once we win this year, I say let TMac come home, trade Meer and keep all of our draft picks for a change and get a few PGs.
Next year’s roster:
PG-Jwill, FA and Draft Pick
SG-Air Canada, Air France and JJ
SF-TMac and Barnes
PF-Rashard and Anderson
C-Dwight, Bass and FA
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
Um, Jameer was an excellent defender last year.
Just because he was off his game for a few games at the start of the season is no reason to start complaining about his D. It’ll come back. If it doesn’t come back, then you worry. But at this point, enough other things are wrong/different (new players including a new SG and a new backup PG, Dwight in foul trouble, injuries/rotating lineups) that I’ll assume a few flukey games are in fact a few flukey games, and not evidence that Jameer is suddenly and inexplicably a bad defender.
And if you think Jameer is injured a lot and doesn’t play defense, why would you want McGrady? McGrady hasn’t been healthy or played defense since the Clinton administration. And that’s on top of the facts that Jameer’s a leader who shoots a great percentage, and McGrady is a cancer who makes Matt Barnes look accurate.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
By the way...
…that was a bit harsh on Matt Barnes. I believe Barnes’ shooting will recover with time… unlike McGrady’s decision-making, which has been AWOL for years. (Along with his back.)
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Plus
Dwight and Jameer are best buds. Now, Dwight’s a trooper, but there’s no reason to piss him off needlessly. Trading our best leader, our best point guard, on an amazing value contract, at the peak of his career, would be an excellent way to piss off our franchise center.
Why the hell would we do that?
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2009 9:05 AM EST up reply actions
Have you guys not seen Meer get hit for 30+ by opposing PGs often last season and this season.
Maybe his +/- is good when he is in the game but I credit that to other PGs shooting all over him and noone else scoring. If then our 5 out scores their 1 then of course the +/- would look good. Don’t mistake that for good defense. He is terrible. But don’t misquote me. He is a BRILLIANT leader and is great on offense. Just not that good on defense.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
Actually, this isn't what happened last season.
Last season, opposing PGs shot something like 40% against Jameer. I’m not going by +/-. I’m going by the performance of opposing PGs against the Magic when Jameer was in the lineup last year — which was actually rather bad, which suggests to me that he’s actually a very good defender.
I’m hoping someone else has some relevant statistics for this, so I don’t have to dig them up myself.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Here.
http://www.thirdquartercollapse.com/2009/6/29/929492/evaluating-the-point-guards-using
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Want to know how many times point guards scored 30+ points on Nelson last year?
Once, thanks to Tony Parker. That’s it, during the regular season this past season.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
That was a good game for Parker.
But in the Spurs and Magic’s other meeting that year, Jameer and the Magic totally shut Parker down.
http://www.nba.com/games/20081218/SASORL/boxscore.html
(And of course, in the game where Parker scored 30, the Magic won anyway.
http://www.nba.com/games/20090111/ORLSAS/boxscore.html )
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
You're right
‘Meer can’t guard quick guards who can get penetration. Fortunately of our big competitors, only the Cavs have a guard who can consistently take advantage of that, and of course we give them matchup problems everywhere else, or at least did last season.
(Rondo’s too streaky, Fisher’s…Derek Fisher)
Dwight’s going to have to run cleanup, which is one thing he’s not being doing this season, and we’re just going to have to get on with it. No team is going to have perfection, even the great teams have flaws – it’s how you compensate for them, and what you can offer in other areas to make up for them, that get you titles. If our biggest issue is not being able to guard speedy point guards, we’re fine.
by eltharion_doa on Nov 23, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
The only worse is his defense? What?
Jameer Nelson was an above-average defender last year. Obviously he’s regressed a little this year but let him play out the full season before calling him out as a bad defensive player, which he isn’t.
So let me get this straight, you want a 34 year-old point guard to supplant a 27 year-old point guard in his prime? And then on top of that, trade the 27 year-old away? To make matters even worse, acquire a player that’s even more injury-proned than the one you’re accusing? Wow, okay. That plan sounds ridiculous.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Getting lit up
For a while there was this trend (maybe only perception) that scrubs were having career games versus the Magic. It would make an interesting statistical study to go back and look through those “career” games and track (1) Magic wins, (2) the rest of the opposing players’ shooting % in that game….was it higher or lower than their average. In other words, does the data support the idea that the reason scrubs (and/or really fast PGs) sometimes torch the Magic is that the team’s defensive scheme might be focused on taking away points from the typical premier scorers and forcing/daring the opponent try to beat them with another player(s)?
by magicfaninTN on Nov 23, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Let me get this right.
That plan sounds ridiculous.
Maybe we should look at signing Jason Williams out of retirement. I saw him the other day and he looks really good. We need some toughness on our squad. Maybe we should look at signing Matt Barnes or Brandon Bass. Even though you guys disagree, I think we should match the Gortat offer. Wait. These are some of the other things I was shot down for saying earlier. Oh well.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
Whoa, revisionism much?!?!
Everyone was high on Barnes, Bass was thought to be a good pickup and the only reason anybody thought Gortat wouldn’t be matched is the ownership’s previous commitment to staying out of the tax.
Maybe next time, you stick to arguments people actually made?
by eltharion_doa on Nov 25, 2009 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
Oh there were arguments made.
Before these players became actual possibilities by the team and media, I was shot down. Do your homework before you mock me. But its o.k.. I’m always shot down until things I say become main stream ideas. Hence my seldom posts here anymore. Though I still frequently read, I hardly ever post because I expect a barrage of malcontent for my comments. Much like this one. Appreciate the back and forth though.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
Give examples, though.
It’s a shame you feel that way. I don’t think it’s a matter of people shooting you down, more that they’re expressing their opinion. Perhaps I’m wrong and everyone is being vociferous.
I can’t remember being negative about Barnes, Bass, or Gortat. I definitely remember being on board with the Brandon signing when the idea was brought up this past season. Likewise, I also definitely remember suggesting that it might make more sense re-signing Marcin than it would be to re-sign Hedo Turkoglu. Don’t remember saying anything about Matt, though.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Not you per se.
Could have been trolls at the time. Just don’t usually feel welcomed anymore so I read most posts and comments, then move on to my Arizona Cardinals blog where I’m more appreciated.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
We rarely have trolls here, if ever.
If or when we do, they’re banned nearly immediately.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I love taking in every comment, whether I agree or not, but usually I do or see some very viable stuff in it. Hopefully you don’t get discouraged, just try rebutting as kindly as possible seems best (which is tough for me at times too haha). As to the FAs this summer, I wasn’t too hot on J-Will, I was very hot on Barnes, only other guy I might’ve wanted more was Linas Kleiza, I liked Bass, but not as much as Dice or possibly Sheed (the long term prospects are best with Bass tho obviously). Thats about it. I wasn’t very on or off the fence of matching Gortat because it was mainly a money issue to be decided if the Magic wanted to commit that much money or not. And right now, I’d want Prince to come to Orlando and start next to Lewis and VC. hehe
Maybe I overeacted.
Thanks for the encouraging words.
Life's too short. Be a fan. Orlando Magic, Arizona Cardinals,Tampa Bay Rays and of course "the U"! What a winning combo.
I think the thing was, as people said, no one expected the Magic to spend.
Everyone knew that Orlando was going to re-tool but dipping into the luxury tax opened up so many more possibilities that weren’t previously considered.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Sorry T-Wack
The Tracy McGarbage ship has sailed.
Should have waited for Young Super Man to get Grown!!!
Keep pumpin, ain't worried bout nuttin
Busters thought we was frontin, so reload and keep dumpin
Keep Sleeping on Orlando...
People have such short memories.
Everyone likes to bemoan Grant Hill and how his contract hampered the franchise for years. However, no one likes to give T-Mac any credit whatsoever for doing what he did and giving us at least an entertaining, watchable team for three out of four years while dealing with Hill’s absence. T-Mac might not be a good fit right now, but the guy put in work while he was here, and played so many minutes and did so much with those minutes that it’s quite possible that he’s paying for it now, like KG. He led us in six different stat categories the year we lost to Detroit in 7 games when we should’ve been out in 4 or 5 against them.
Please, try to remember the years of positive some of these players gave instead of choosing to irrationally trash them for a short stretch of treating this franchise like a business… the same thing that franchises do to their players 99% of the time.
I don't think some people are bemoaning what Tracy McGrady accomplished with Orlando.
Which, to be frank, was nothing but I think some people do recognize that McGrady had four of the most impressive statistical season in a player’s career. That does count for something because Tracy blossomed as a superstar with the franchise. However, extenuating circumstances didn’t allow the Magic to really capitalize on that.
I don’t think some people are trashing McGrady or Hill but simply pointing out the reality of their time here. It didn’t end pretty, whether or not you want to blame the player or the organization. I like T-Mac but there’s just too many question marks with him that make offering him any type a contract unwise. It’s not worth the risk.
Welcome to 3QC, btw!
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
*Some* people aren't trashing him...
But there certainly are others with the “T-Whack” comments and those of that ilk. I know there wasn’t anything definitive accomplished while he was here, but to be fair, just getting to the playoffs with that team was an accomplishment in my book.
I do agree that there are too many question marks right now. But what happens if he does come back and averages 15/5/5 for the Rockets for the last half of the season while playing (relatively) within the offense? Yeah, big “if”, but still, I would welcome him back at a reasonable contract if he wanted to try to come home next year. He certainly looked alright when Yao went down in 2008 leading them to 22 wins in a row and pushing a favored Utah team until Alston (who was playing really well) went down.
Glad to be here, by the way. Long-time follower who finally stopped being lazy and registered.
Yeah, the T-Whack comments are unnecessary and immature.
Some people wouldn’t want to see Tracy McGrady return and have offered more constructive reasons as to why. But nevertheless, I still don’t think it’d be worth it to sign T-Mac unless he has some sort of renaissance in Houston – which I don’t see happening, quite frankly. I don’t think it’s worth throwing money at a player, while he still might have talent and be of use, offers way too many question marks to make it a sensible signing. Why take the risk? Doesn’t make sense to me.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
At this point, I totally agree.
But that’s why they play the games (if he can actually suit up). I just would like to see him have success because I always felt he caught a bit too much flack, both from here and Houston. I mean, he was never on a team that was favored to win any playoff series, either due to lack of talent or healthy bodies. His stats were considerably better in the playoffs than the regular season, so it’s not like he chokes. Also, he’s done a lot in Dharfur to bring attention to the situation there in comparison to a lot of other people in his position.
Wherever he ends up, I just hope it works out for the dude.
Me too, I only wish him the best.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

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