Orlando Magic News for November 17th: Reaction to Jameer Nelson's Pending Knee Surgery
- GM Otis Smith to wait on Nelson's recovery, but won't totally rule out AI
Brian Schmitz of the Orlando Sentinel reports that Orlando Magic GM Otis Smith will be patient during Nelson's estimated four-to-six-week absence. Notably, Smith didn't appear opposed to the idea of signing Allen Iverson.
At the same time, when asked by the Sentinel about the possibility of signing free agent point guard Allen Iverson, Smith didn't reject the idea out of hand. He has usually shot down scenarios involving players who come with baggage or questionable character, citing team chemistry and how it might affect superstar Dwight Howard.
"It's hard to say. You have to evaluate it. But it has to make sense for your team," he said. "I just got the news (on Nelson) a few hours ago, so I can't rule out anything yet. You have to take a step back. That's how we've done things."
Asked specifically about Iverson --- who split with the Memphis Grizzlies recently --- he said, "He's still out there, isn't he?"
- The Return of Jason Williams
Henry Abbott of TrueHoop writes that Nelson's absence will allow Jason Williams to enter the spotlight, which he hasn't done in several years.
Williams returned to the NBA, as a Magic player, this fall. Today, as Orlando's starting guard, Jameer Nelson, is set to miss four to six weeks after surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his left knee, Williams is suddenly coach Stan Van Gundy's best option -- ahead of Anthony Johnson, who has played just 25 minutes all year -- to start at point guard.
In about 200 minutes of action this season, Williams has shown improved shooting (his true shooting percentage and 3-point shooting percentage are close to career bests). He is also showing a point guard's selflessness -- his assist rate is higher than it ever was in Miami, while his usage rate -- the rate at which he ends plays himself -- is at an all-time low. And despite all that, he has maintained just enough pizazz to already be the star in some highlight reels from his time in Orlando.
He's famous as one of the NBA's best ball-handlers, but the measure of his success, on this team -- the team that played the NBA's best defense last year -- will come when his team does not have the ball. On Nelson's watch, opposing point guards have been pretty good against the Magic this season. There are early season hints the team may be able to play decent defense when Williams takes his place.
- Magic PG Nelson out 4-to-6 Weeks
Benson Taylor of The Sporting News writes that the Magic will have an opportunity to play their bench more often with Nelson out, which could pay dividends in the playoffs.
While in Charlotte last week, [Rashard] Lewis commented that perhaps the one positive of the starters being out of the lineup this time of year is that it gives the bench more playing time early in the season, which could be helpful down the road.
"It's going to help us deep into the season, when guys get banged up," Lewis told Sporting News last week. "Mostly in the playoffs. And when the starters are tired and we're not into the game that night, we have just as good a bench that can come in and take over for the rest of the night."
-
Van Gundy Deals With Injuries
UPDATE (from Eddy): John Denton of OrlandoMagic.com notes how head coach Stan Van Gundy is dealing with the illnesses and the injuries.No such trade is expected this time around. If Nelson misses four weeks, he will be out for 13 games and if his injury requires six weeks he will be unavailable for 19 games. Van Gundy said while there’s no good time for injuries, he would prefer them to come now rather than down the stretch as the Magic are preparing for the playoffs.
The last part (about Vince Carter) echoes what I stated earlier today in my analysis of the repercussions of Jameer Nelson's injury.
``If Jameer needs the full six weeks, we’ll still have 52 games to play and that will be plenty of time for us to get going again,’’ Van Gundy said. ``We have a different team now, so I’m not sure the experience of being without Jameer last year will help us a lot. But for the returning guys there is probably a confidence level that we can be successful playing without Jameer.’’
Van Gundy said he also can use Carter, a shooting guard, at point guard late in games because he wants the ball in his hands while running pick-and-roll plays. That’s just the position the Magic are in now, Van Gundy said.
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When has AI ever shown that he can distribute the ball?
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Nov 17, 2009 6:04 PM EST reply actions
AI has averaged 6.2 assists for his career.
Including 5 seasons with 7+ assists per game. I don’t think Iverson is the right answer for this team either, but that’s got more to do with what he wants than it does with what he’s capable of.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
right, so that's why he's a great point guard and sets up his teams offense so well..........oops
Never trust a fart
by AB's triple double on Nov 17, 2009 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
No matter what your opinion of Iverson may be, it's tough to deny his court vision.
I mean, it’s also tough to deny that he hasn’t always USED that court vision, or that he tends to be very shoot-first, or that he can get reckless. But in terms of raw ability, he’s clearly got the skills to play the point.
Of course, even disregarding everything else, there’s no way he’s going to change his shoot-first mentality at this point. I suspect he’s retired, but if he’s not, I think he’s going to keep trying a style of play he can no longer play effectively. But if he somehow managed to change that, he’d probably have the ability to be an effective distributor, as he was in his prime.
Of course, the operative word here is “somehow.” It’s enough of a question whether the guy even wants to keep playing at this point. The idea of him reworking his entire style of play is pretty severely unlikely…
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Thing is, even in his prime, Iverson was an inefficient basketball player.
At this point in his career, Allen has nothing to bring to a team. He’s still an inefficient shooter, his defense has regressed, and he’s too much of a problem in the locker room. Case closed.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I'd debate that first point...
He certainly wasn’t OUTSTANDINGLY efficient, and would’ve been a better player with a little more shot selection, but his shooting percentages definitely made him look less efficient than he was. Remember how many free throws that guy attempts. As recently as two years ago, he posted a 56.7% true shooting percentage, and the three previous years found him solidly in the 53-54 percent range — league average, more or less. He stands at 52% for his career — again, probably not too far from the league average, given that he lived through a low-scoring era.
(Also remember the teams he came up on; the year the Sixers made the finals, they held their opponents as a whole to 42.9% field goal shooting, and shot 600 more FTs then them over the course of the season. Just a terrifying defensive team. In an environment like that, Iverson’s game WAS relatively efficient…)
Of course, I’m talking about 2005 Iverson here, not 2009 Iverson, who I don’t think anyone should want.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
His career percentages are TS% (51.9%) and eFG% (45.2%).
Toss in his career Offensive Rating (105) and you’re looking at an inefficient offensive player. All of those numbers I just regurgitated are below-average. There is literally no positive to Allen Iverson at this point, none. I don’t mind if we talk about the possibility in a constructive manner but in my opinion, there’s no argument. Absolutely none.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Oh, there is no argument NOW. I’m just saying in the past. It’s not that relevant.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Right, yeah.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
He still has had only one bad season.
I can’t see how the jury is in on this.
The only sticking point is that he wants to start. He’s still more efficient than Peaches or Barnes. I have no doubt that Iverson would be a positive influence on a winning team. He has too much heart.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
Wow, Duke is destroying Charlotte.
I knew the Bobcats were bad, but this is ridiculous.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
I don't have a definitive answer as to why some guys are more injury prone than others...
but, it could just be a string of bad luck. Jameer looks like he takes good care of himself. I wonder if Jameer will adopt the philosophy of other players who have had injury problems in the past (T-Mac, Vince Carter…etc.), by avoiding the paint and becoming strictly a jump shooter.
I say wait until AI clears waivers
And try him on a 10 day contract. . . I really doubt he would play Orlando ball, but I always want to give a person a chance.
I am the world's best basketball player! *
* Among those with no skills whatsoever
No way. A.I. doesn't deserve a chance.
Allen Iverson shouldn’t come near the state of Florida, let alone anywhere near the Orlando Magic.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Why do you hate Allen so much?
I’m sensing some strong personal bias here.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I don't hate him.
I like him as a player but he has way too many flaws, at this point in his career.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Iverson on Miami would be good for the humor value
I can’t imagine the Answer and Wade surviving on the same team
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
Also, I believe Jason Williams can effectively fill in for Jameer
So far this year, he has simply done a better job. He’s not as much of a scorer, though that’s a good thing that he’s putting the team first. Just look through recent box scores at the +/- of both players. . . I think that tells a lot.
Now, what I can’t say is that this will be easy for the Magic. I think J-Will will fill in for Jameer much better than Dad will for J-Will. I just hope Johnson rises to the challenge.
I am the world's best basketball player! *
* Among those with no skills whatsoever
Johnson was decent as a backup last year.
Aside from his poor early-season shooting and his inability to play extended minutes, he wasn’t a huge problem. I see no reason to believe he’s lost the ability to replicate his performance from last year.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Anthony will do what he's always done, be a solid back-up point guard.
I don’t see why Johnson can’t duplicate his performance from last year, as a reserve.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Can't VC do some of Meer's duties anyway?
Isn’t that part of why the Magic acquired him to do some of the stuff Hedo Turkoglu did? I’m more worried about Jameer Nelson’s long term health than I am anything else.
The Magic will be fine one way or the other but without Jameer Nelson at his best they lose their 2nd or 3rd best offensive threat on the floor against the teams they need it most when it counts. That’s the worst case scenario.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Yes, Carter can, that's why I pointed it out in my post earlier today.
Vince can do some of the things that Hedo did last year in the same situation.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
AI's warts
His shooting, selfishness, willingness to play 4th or 5th fiddle, willingness to sit for an entire quarter if J-Dub heats up, willingness to come off the bench, defensive capabilities, defensive desire, willingness to buy into a defensive system (and not gamble), and the question of what happens once Jameer returns.
Beyond that though, I can’t say I’m not intrigued by the idea.
by Half-man Half-gortat on Nov 17, 2009 7:15 PM EST reply actions
I'm for having another iso guy tho.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but he's more of a black hole than Pietrus
AI averages a 32.0% USG rate across his career, which is ludicrous – he’s higher than Bryant or James, and almost as high as Jordan.
"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"
.. and when you consider how inefficient he is, those numbers are more mind-boggling.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
we'll be okay
i think we’ll do all right because its not like williams or johnson has to score huge all they have to do is pass the ball to vince,dwight,rashard get some assist and hit open shots and defend
iverson is a cancer, he’s legacy was on the line this summer to see if he could be unselfish and a good team player and what does he do blow it i dont want iverson on the magic plus we have enough offense to make up for jameer…. why not play vince at the point guard spot and jj redick at the 2, then on defense j.j can guard the point
That's not necessary.
J-Will can start. Whether or not he can be as effective as he has been in extended minutes is the question.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
AI should never be in a magic uniform period.
and carter playing point is not a option in my mind either because he gets hurt enough creating plays for himself. if carter has to create for himself and the team, i think is asking to much.j will will do just fine and so will dad when he gets his legs back. we all knew meer would fall at some point this season hopefully its only this 4-6 week period.PLEASE OTIS DONT BRING AI HERE.
Carter wouldn't be playing the point a lot, just in a similar role to Hedo Turkoglu last year.
That is, if that’s the direction Stan Van Gundy wants to take. And it’s not like Vince is foreign to the role, he’s done it before with New Jersey when they were beset with injuries this past season. I don’t see the issue.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I want to no part of AI
basketballs version of TO. NO THANKS.. With AI you have to look past his stats, he is not a team player, we don’t need that right now. We are still trying to form our identity with all of the new pieces. A cancer would ruin this team.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account
He isn't a cancer, he just needs to start.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
If you don't think he's a cancer to a team, I don't know what to say to that either.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Via Adrian Wojnarowski:
Just let A.I. rip, let him go. Sources say Iverson started to speak louder and louder about how he had played for one dumb bleeping coach in Detroit a year ago, and now had come to play for another dumb bleeping coach in Memphis. He never dared speak this way on the Detroit Pistons’ bus because he feared team president Joe Dumars and respected the championship players on board.
With Memphis, forget it. The Grizzlies are a joke, signing Iverson for pure box-office reasons, and he made sure everyone – especially Hollins – could hear his frustration. Within 36 hours, Iverson was on "leave," never to return to Memphis.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Exactly.
I would rather bring up a NBDL PG.
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account
LOL
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I like you're thinking but I think the Magic just need to wait this out and see what happens.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
The problem with Sessions is that he is BYC
But, with the Magic’s TPE that shouldn’t be a problem. The question is who do the Magic give up to get this deal done? And, do they want to commit another 3 years and 12 million to a guy who can’t shoot from deep at all?
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
I take that back
Sessions isn’t BYC, but he can’t be traded until Dec 15th. If Meer is out for a month, 6 weeks at most, you’re waiting until Dec 15th anyway to trade for Sessions.
I don’t see it myself.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
Yeah, Ramon would be a poor fit with Orlando.
Can’t shoot the three is pretty much an automatic disqualification.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Unless your name is Marcin Gortat or Dwight Howard
But, yeah.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
No to AI
No No No.
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Oh, hes in the laegue two and Jayson Thomson and that Boggins dude on Milwokee, and Occur for the Jizz. Its a talented laegue.--Kfan in Korea
As has been raised earlier...
at what point do we question the long term health of Jameer? Sure, the shoulder was a fluke. But meniscus damage can have lasting effects :looks forlornly at scar on left knee: If we can’t rely on the guy to stay on the court, sadly, it may be time to go a different direction. And I love Jameer, probably my second favorite player on the team.
Tough call, man.
It’s a valid question.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
I don't want to 'rosterbate', but
if the Hornets do decide things are in the crapper (because, let’s face it, they are) and Paul demands out, is there a better option than us? A contender (I would hope New Orleans isn’t so petty that they’d send CP3 to, say, the Bucks), we have tons of assets for a trade, different conference.
This is obviously only if Dwight is on board. Jameer is his buddy, and the undisputed leader of the team, but man, the only leader who should be wearing a suit on the sidelines is Stan.
I don't think that'll happen.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Probably not, but man,
it is tough to have your QB in and out of the lineup every year.
Until you see an injury occur in the same area due to a previous problem, this is not valid.
by derekk on Nov 17, 2009 9:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, his injuries have been all over his body.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
This is very true
Maybe he just needs to take some Fish Oil or Chondroiton or something to strengthen his ligaments.
BUT ASK THE LEAGUE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I first saw this problem a few games back when Jameer went to the bench and was looking at his knee but every other time and since then, I hadn’t seen him showing it. He mustve been really toughing it out. Hopefully it was caught earlier, I thought these injuries are more severe so that’s good. Hopefully he gets well sooner and with an even bigger chip on his shoulder.
by derekk on Nov 17, 2009 10:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yeah, I remember in the Thunder game when he landed awkwardly on his knee.
I wonder if that’s where it started and if it was the same knee (my memory is fuzzy).
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
Otis can do better................
Otis Smith will no sign A.I. yet is too soon in the season to push the buttom of panic, he will wait until December to trade Marcin Gortat, A J and/or JJ reddick for a bona fide point guard.
what about monta ellis, who is apparently desperate to get out of GS?
I don’t know what his contract looks like, but he’s a very underrated player right now that could be a great compliment to VC.
what?!
Didn’t we rule out AI in the discussion above, b/c he’s a locker room cancer? Seriously?! Monta?!
Chucker. No thanks.
by magicfaninTN on Nov 18, 2009 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
$11 million dollars, not a high character guy, can't shoot threes, etc.
No.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
He's so fast though...
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Who cares about speed?
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
A flat $11M annually until 2013/2014 (which is a player option)
And he cant shoot. So, uh, no.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 18, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
He scores at will.
It’s awesome to watch
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
He was great 2 years ago, before crushing his ankle in that accident.
And I loved the We Believe-era Warriors. But I think he’s overpaid and a poor fit for the Magic.
Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation | Brandon Bass: "I just play hard."
by Evan Dunlap on Nov 18, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I agree he's a poor fit.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, just saw the news since Ive been out all day
Jameer, again….wow.
"Blue and white...ignite...BOOOM! - Dwight Howard
The one day where I didnt check the net for most of the day meaning someone already grabbed JWill off my fantasy league FA’s. haha
Yeah, I didn't even think about it
I was so busy ranting here, I neglected to take care of my fantasy team’s needs (I could really use a good guard with high assists and 3 pointers right now). Somebody had already snatched up Williams when I remembered to check.
Even though the Hippopotamus lacks a stinger for a tail, a truly wise man would rather be sat on by a bee. ~ Banacek
by funny80sguy on Nov 18, 2009 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
more
D12 for sure. Stan is going to earn his money this year. VC, JJ, Pietrus, Shard, and D12. I like it..
"No matter where you go, you are what you are playa"-Jay Z
Twitter Account
by Wmillion on Nov 18, 2009 12:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
i think
jameer is a great player but with the magic wanting to become a champion, i think a lot of sacrifices has to be made… with him the magic is always adjusting because of his injuries. signing AI is definitely a bad idea but i cant think of any reliable pg’s much better than jwill who can be acquired by the magic this time of year through a trade.
what we do in life echoes in eternity
for discussions sake
who do you think the best option for pg that can be acquired by the magic this time of year??
for me AI is gonna be a problem but he once said that he doesnt mind coming off the bench if its a championship caliber team
what we do in life echoes in eternity
Williams.
It remains to be seen whether he can do it for 30+ minutes a game, but he can play the point, and while he’s not a GREAT three-point shooter, he can at least keep opposing defenses honest. His biggest advantage, of course, is that he wouldn’t require a trade to get, and wouldn’t unbalance the team when Jameer comes back.
He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.
Anyone not named Allen Iverson.
Doubt Otis Smith makes a move, given that this is a short-term injury, and the team is prepared for it.
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"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat
the reason ai works better than you think;vc's PG weakness
the only reason iverson could even potentially work is that he has a long running relatiomship with vince carter. allen iverson is not an efficient player, but calling him a cancer is unfair. what he is is a truly honest guy, and I feel one of the most unfairly hated on people in the league. that being said, its still an overreaction to sign him bc of jameers injury. j-will has proved more than capable. incidentally the one area of being a point guard vince is not good at is breaking pressure in the backcourt. hes a good ballhandler in the front court, and a very underrated passer, but if hes the one bringing the ball up against pressure, the magic will have problems
by nickswarriors16 on Nov 18, 2009 10:55 AM EST reply actions
I agree with you on AI
But I’ve never seen Vince turn the ball over with pressure. He’s an outstanding ball handler, but has lost most of his speed. As long as he gets a pick or two he’ll be fine.
It's not a dunk unless your hand makes contact with the rim. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, "Superman..."
by ben_gleicher on Nov 18, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
vince is a good ballhnadler
vince is a good ballhandler and a pretty fantastic one in the front court. however, ive watched him as the main point guard and he can catch the ball under incredible durress, but bringing it up consitently against good pressurers in the back court is tough for him. hed still be more than serviceable tho
by nickswarriors16 on Nov 18, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Read above (Woj's report), he's a cancer.
I write for Third Quarter Collapse and have a Twitter account. Like us? Please vote for 3QC in the Orbbies, Orlando's Rockin' Blogs, hosted by the Orlando Sentinel. We're nominated for the best Sports and Overall blog.
"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

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