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Free throw shooting: Dwight vs. Shaq

There's been a lot of talk about Dwight Howard's mediocre free throw shooting lately -- which is perhaps understandable, given that he doesn't have a lot of other weaknesses to worry about.  Some people are worrying that opponents might exploit it by deliberately hacking Dwight and sending him to the line, in much the same manner as has been done with Shaquille O'Neal at various points throughout his career.  Is this a valid worry?

Star-divide

I say no, and here's why: Shaq's career free throw shooting percentage is 52.8%. So if you foul Shaq, you're giving his team an average of 1.056 points for that possession (discounting the possibility of an and-1 situation, an offensive rebound, being called for a flagrant, etc.) There are times when you will gladly give your opponent a 105.6 efficiency -- that is an efficiency you can hope to beat in the long run.  (And note that there have been times when Shaq's free throw percentage was worse than that -- he didn't average over 50% once in his four years with Miami, for example.)

Now, Dwight -- .601 career, .594 in '08-'09. So now you're talking about giving up 1.2 points on the possession. The fact is, if you're giving a team 1.2 points per possession, that team will beat you.

Last year, the Magic scored 1.1 points per possession, and gave up 1.02 -- note how Shaq's free throw numbers fall pretty much directly between those two, and how Dwight's are way up there above both of them.  This, to my mind, is why we've never seen some kind of Dwight-hacking strategy employed systematically, and -- assuming his free-throw shooting ability doesn't suddenly deteriorate massively -- why we probably never will. (And if we do, it'll do us more good than harm.)

I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice if he improved this aspect of his game, but the 7% difference between the two players is a huge one on a practical level. A possession in which Dwight gets to the line is still a good possession for the team... the same can't necessarily be said for a guy like Shaq.

This FanPost was made by a member of the Orlando Pinstriped Post community, and is to be treated as the opinions and views of its author, not that of the blogger or blog community as a whole.

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Lovit

I know what Bo dont know.

by D-RAK on Oct 22, 2009 6:23 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Yeah, I mean, Dwight isn't that bad of a free-throw shooter.

Especially when compared to Shaq.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 22, 2009 8:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Just to provide more of a basis of comparison, last year the league varied from 1.02 points per possession (Oklahoma City) to 1.14 points per possession (Phoenix, Portland). Any player with a FT% of 0.570 or better is at 1.14 points per possession if fouled while shooting. Dwight’s career FT% of 0.594 translates to 1.188 points/possession, which is good enough.

Shaq? His career .528 is 1.056 points/possession, slightly better than the most anemic offenses in the NBA (Charlotte is at 1.05).

The worst is Ben Wallace, who only nets 0.836 points/possession from the line.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Oct 23, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Very insightful.

And just shows that the national media just jumps on the train without having a CLUE where it came from OR where it’s going.

by pianolady on Oct 23, 2009 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

Excellent point.

To play devil’s advocate though, Dwight’s free throw shooting presents situational problems at the end of games rather than over the course of a season.

by CaliFlorida on Oct 23, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Correct.

I would agree.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 23, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, that can be true...

…there are times when you’ll be glad to give up 1.2 points (late-game situations where you’re ahead, for example). And in a more general sense, the man shoots 10 free throws a game — even a 5% increase would translate to half a point per game. I’m just saying that the situation you had with Shaq at times — people systematically/repeatedly fouling him — can’t really be duplicated with Dwight.

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 23, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You broke it down as concise and precise as possible, so well done.

Shoot, I might push this onto the front page in a few days.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 24, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm 2 for 3!

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 23, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

(I’d feel better about this if the first one was about how we shouldn’t sign Brandon Bass.)

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 23, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm... still on the fence about Bass.

Though I’ll admit he’s played well so far. (I think I’ve mostly just gotten too attached to Ryan Anderson…)

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 24, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right? I think people forgot the rec button or something.

They’ll hand it out like candy in create a caption competitions.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 24, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's the green crack button

I swear that thing’s addictive – I must have rec’d four or five captions for the last Round 1.

"When you make your final stand
I'll be right there
I'll never leave
And all I ask of you is
Believe"

by The Dark on Oct 25, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think one thing that gets lost in the shuffle is the context.

If the Magic are down by 5 with <60 seconds to go, then we need more than 1.2 points per possession. If we are up by 5 in the same scenario we will probably take the 1.2, but would prefer a greater likelihood of 2. I’m kind of new around here, but this sounds similar to the idea of bunting in baseball. It is generally a bad idea to bunt, but if it’s late and close then a manager should be more inclined to going with the bunt. For the same reason I foul Dwight every time he touches the ball. I do think it’s garbage when he’s getting bear-hugged under the rim when the ball is at the top of the key just so they can put him on the line. Anyways, these are my thoughts.

You can either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 29, 2009 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

But if we're looking at it that way, in a 1-2 possession kind of situation...

…is improving his free-throw percentage to, say, 65% really going to stop opponents from doing something? I mean, if you’re willing to give up 1.2 points to end the possession, you’re probably willing to give up 1.3 points.

I mean, I guess that argument can’t be extended indefinitely, but how high is Dwight’s ceiling as a free throw shooter? I think 70% is probably out of his range…

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 29, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd agree on your upper limit, one thing to keep in mind is

Do coaches think like this? Another might be Dwight’s % by quarter or late-and-close. I’m sure over a long enough time-line they equal out, but if he shoots 70% for 3 quarters and 35% in the 4th (these numbers are hypothetical), then sure you’ll foul him every time. It’s an interesting example of game theory, in that, a coach could choose to never foul and hope to D up. Or they could foul every time and take the nearly guaranteed 1.x points/possession. Each team would have a different break-even point. I would think in the last 49 seconds fouling is almost a prerequisite, but in the 2-3 minutes leading up to it, I’m sure there is a lot of gray area for each team. Sorry for the rambling steam-of-consciousness, but this kind of stuff intrigues me.

You can either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know, I've always sort of assumed free-throw shooting was constant between quarters.

But now that I think of it — it would make sense if fourth-quarter FT percentages were a little lower (due to fatigue). I don’t see how the closeness of the game would affect percentages…

According to 82games, Howard’s free-throw percentages by quarter last year: 59, 62, 59, 55. So… there could be a slight fatigue effect, but it could also be a random fluctuation. Compare other players: LeBron 80, 74, 75, 81. Wade 71, 75, 80, 78. Shaq 54, 61, 63, 57. So from those numbers, I’m not seeing much support for the notion of any major fatigue effect on free throws. (I am seeing that Shaq’s fourth-quarter free-throw percentage was higher than Dwight’s last year — but Shaq had his best free-throw-shooting season in years last year.)

And yeah, don’t worry about rambling. If rambling were a problem, half of us wouldn’t be allowed to post here…

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 29, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great discussion, fellas.

To further support the notion of “clutch-time” free-throws: here.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 29, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stop me if I'm wrong...

…but doesn’t that data support the exact opposite of the notion of “clutch” free-throws? It seems to me that what we’re looking at here is pretty much the definition of a random statistical sampling — there are a few outliers, but given the small sample size per player and the fact that we’re looking at hundreds of players, that’s to be expected.

He's currently two-thirds man, one-third amazing. Which, let's face it, is still a pretty good ratio.

by 3.3seconds on Oct 29, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's what I meant.

Sorry about that, I meant to say to further support the notion of “clutch-time” free throws dipping on a player-by-player basis since that’s where this conversation is headed.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 29, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the link e

I wish the data on that link was available instead of what they skimmed off.

You can either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Oct 29, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, StatsCube isn't readily available to the public.

I'm the other guy at Third Quarter Collapse, with a Twitter account.

"The second unit is kind of crazy because the second unit is only white guys." - Marcin Gortat

by erivera7 on Oct 30, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

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