Interview With Kevin Pelton
"When you consider what he's accomplished through age 23, he's certainly got a shot, but Chamberlain is going to be pretty difficult to dislodge. The start of Howard's career is fairly similar to that of another all-time great center who just happened to start his career in a Magic uniform, of course."
-- Kevin Pelton, Basketball Prospectus
Happy Martin Luther King Jr. Day!
A new week. A new interview.
As mentioned last week at the end of my Q/A transcript with Orlando Sentinel's Kyle Hightower, I was lucky enough to be able to chat with Kevin Pelton from Basketball Prospectus on behalf of Third Quarter Collapse.
In case you may not recognize his name, Pelton is one of THE most renown APBRmetricians involved in the mainstream sports media today. Pelton is a sportswriter who currently writes for Basketball Prospectus (a site 3QC has linked to many times before) and has written for 82games.com, Hoopsworld.com, & SI.com. It's safe to state that Pelton's credentials as a stats guru are impeccable.
Pelton was gracious enough to share some background information about himself, as well as provide some excellent analysis pertaining specifically to the Orlando Magic.
So with the introductions squared away, here's the interview.
Enjoy.
Click after the jump for the full transcript.
[editor's note: These answers were given BEFORE the Lakers game this past Friday.]
How long have you been working at Basketball Prospectus?
This is our second season at Basketball Prospectus, and I've been with the site since the start. Last season, I wrote about a column per week during the season. This year, since I'm no longer working for/covering the Seattle SuperSonics (while continuing to cover the WNBA's Seattle Storm for storm.wnba.com), I've had more time to devote to NBA analysis. That's allowed me to write two or three columns a week as well as contribute to our new Unfiltered blog.
What was it like working at 82games.com & SI.com? Given that 82games.com is a very stat-driven website, was there a direct contrast of styles you had to face at SI.com as a result?
In both cases, I had a lot of freedom as a writer to pretty much address any topic I wanted, so there wasn't any difference imposed on me. That said, I was certainly conscious of the fact that I was writing for a different audience when my work appeared on SI.com, so I went into more detail explaining some of the more advanced statistics I utilized. I also tended to use SI.com for the bigger stories (especially during the postseason) while saving some of the more esoteric columns for 82games.com. (Now, because BP and SI.com have a content agreement, they're picking some of my columns and those of our other NBA writers to appear on both sites.)
How long have you been moderating the APBRmetrics forum? What type of visitors do you get (I've noticed John Hollinger posts there, among others)? How often do you post?
The APBRmetrics forum is an offshoot of a Yahoo! group that started in 2001. I found it the next year and started posting, which was how I "met" (online) the leaders in the field like Hollinger, Dean Oliver and Dan Rosenbaum who I now consider friends. At some point, it became clear that Yahoo! did not offer enough functionality, so I put together a true message board on my Web site in late December 2004 and invited everyone to move over.
The great thing about APBRmetrics is the diversity of voices, from the aforementioned pioneers working for teams or writing about the league to fans who are just starting to learn about statistical analysis. You have some people who are experts in math and statistics, and then others with more of a coaching/playing background. There's a little something for everything. I tend to post less often than I did a few years ago, partially because a lot of my thought is directed toward my columns now, but a few times a week at least.
Are the Orlando Magic, as currently constructed, capable of winning an NBA Title this season? If yes, why? If no, why not?
I would say yes. To win a title, generally a team needs to either be very good at both ends of the floor or elite at one end and at least adequate on the other. Third in the league in Defensive Rating (as part of a trio of teams, along with Boston and Cleveland, that has separated themselves from everyone else in the league) and in the league's top 10 in Offensive Rating, the Magic qualifies under the latter criterion. Orlando is outscoring opponents by 8.4 points per game, which is basically as good as any champion team since the 1996-97 Chicago Bulls (the best since then was the 1999-00 Lakers, at +8.5). I don't see any reason to say this team could not win a championship.
To follow up on the previous question, do you believe Orlando will win a championship in the next five years?
I'm going to say no, not necessarily as any indictment of the Magic but more because I don't think I would answer yes for anyone in the league save the Lakers, Cleveland and Boston. Odds are one of those teams will win multiple championships, so there's not going to be a lot to go around for the rest of the league. The more interesting angle might be which team you would put fourth in terms of chances of winning a championship in the next five years after the top three. That would basically mean picking amongst Houston, New Orleans, New York (the 2010 factor), Orlando, Portland and Utah, and I'd probably put the Magic tops in that group. The caveat is that in the future Orlando will need to get improvement from Dwight Howard or to upgrade the core to offset the aging of Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu (assuming Turkoglu is re-signed in the offseason).
It's been no secret that Anthony Johnson has been a weak link in the chain so far this season for the Magic. So has Keith Bogans, but the team has been able to mask his play with their depth at two-guard. Is Johnson's poor numbers strictly due to his age? Or are there other factors involved?
If by other factors you mean he wasn't all that good in the first place. … No, Johnson had a very nice run as a backup point guard in Indiana, but guys like that don't tend to age very well, and Johnson is no exception to that trend.
To follow up on the previous question, who do you feel would be an appropriate back-up PG for Orlando? Do the Magic have the resources to trade for this player?
It's a tough fit, because you've only got about 15 minutes a night available behind Nelson and the depth at shooting guard makes it unlikely you'll see a lot of two-point lineups. Earl Watson would be a guy who would be an upgrade, but he would be unhappy with that role and makes too much money to put in such a limited role. Kyle Lowry would make more sense if he could somehow be pried away from the Grizzlies (maybe they'd have better luck luring Fran Vazquez to the U.S. with Marc Gasol on the roster and would be interested in his rights? No? OK). C.J. Watson, as discussed lately, makes sense. One wild-card option would be Ronnie Price of Utah, who has put up solid numbers in limited minutes over the course of his career and is out of the rotation when the Jazz is healthy (which is never, this season).
Given your recent article on Basketball Prospectus discussing the merits of who is the best point guard in the East and the fact that you ranked Jameer Nelson third behind Devin Harris & Rajon Rando, I'd like to know where you would rank Nelson overall among the floor generals in the NBA?
Naturally, part of the reason that column is interesting is that the best point guards in the league are generally in the West. I don't envy coaches who have to decide who's going to make the All-Star team at the point out West. You have a few tiers of point guards:
Chris Paul
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Deron Williams
Devin Harris
Steve Nash (I know, this feels like blasphemy, but …)
Rajon Rondo
Jose Calderon
Baron Davis
Jason Kidd
Jameer Nelson
Out of that last tier, I would probably have Nelson at the top right now, so that would put him eighth in the league. The point worth noting is that we are in a golden age of NBA point guards right now. I just named 11 point guards amongst the league's best and did not even get to Mike Bibby, Andre Miller, Derrick Rose, Rodney Stuckey or Mo Williams.
With the uncertainty surrounding Hedo Turkoglu's future with Orlando after this season, what players out there could the Magic pursue that could equate Turkoglu's production without sacrificing the team's excellent chemistry?
At a quick glance, I'm not seeing a ton of guys that would make sense. The best fit might be a player Magic fans are certainly familiar with - Mike Miller. In terms of guys who can score and handle the ball, he's a pretty close match for Turkoglu. Alas, for some reason Miller has decided to stop shooting the ball this year, which has hurt his value. Travis Outlaw is going to be a free agent and offers athleticism and wing shooting with the ability to play some power forward. He doesn't handle it well, though you could give more ballhandling duties to Nelson. As far as the trade route, John Salmons would be a decent fit if the Kings decided Donte Greene was ready for a larger role. Overall, it's going to be hard to replace Turkoglu next summer, so unless the Magic is really convinced he's out the door and moves him now, re-signing him looks like the best option.
Does Dwight Howard have the potential to go down as the greatest center of all-time? Or will that title stick with (presumably) Wilt Chamberlain?
When you consider what he's accomplished through age 23, he's certainly got a shot, but Chamberlain is going to be pretty difficult to dislodge. The start of Howard's career is fairly similar to that of another all-time great center who just happened to start his career in a Magic uniform, of course.
Many Magic fans expect the team to have two All-Stars represented this year in Phoenix. Apart from Dwight, both Jameer Nelson & Rashard Lewis have popped up as possible sidekicks to accompany Superman to the desert. It's becoming increasingly clear that Nelson (the more deserving player) may get snubbed due to the fact he has to compete with a number of guards for a reserve spot. Since Lewis doesn't have that problem as a forward, it's looking like he may be the more realistic choice to be a reserve. With all that said, is he deserving of the honor?
Yes. I actually have Lewis and Nelson nearly identical in terms of overall value when you account for the fact that Lewis has played 350 (and change) more minutes this season. If I was picking my roster today, I don't think I would have either player, but they're both certainly very much in the range of deserving candidates -- probably next in line in the frontcourt and the backcourt in my mind. In real life, Ray Allen will probably be ahead of Nelson, which is why Lewis has the easier path to the All-Star Game.
Again, I like to thank Kevin for allowing me to pick his brain a bit and gather his thoughts on a variety of topics. This definitely won't be the last time 3QC speaks with him.
On the dock for next week (if everything goes to plan) will be an interview with another Basketball Prospectus writer & stats expert, Bradford Doolittle. Be on the lookout for that Q/A, soon to come.
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23 comments
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Comments
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome interview choice
I’d also recommend a poster over at APBRMetrics by the name of Mountain. The guy is deep in his ability to break down the game and would be a thrilling read. Just my 2 cents…
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jan 19, 2009 4:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm very familiar with Mountain .. comments quite a bit on the Wages of Win Journal too.
Dude knows his stuff. I’ll definitely put him on the list of interviewees I’d like to speak with. Good call.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is a big picture guy
always finding new angles to research old problems. Also, his grasp of all the different metrics available, how they can be applied and combined, and what they tell is really second to none. If you bag him than well done!
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jan 19, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Pelton
To be honest, I didn’t know much about him before your interview, but he certainly showed how much knowledge he has of the NBA with his answers to your questions.
I do hope he’s wrong, though, when he says that he doesn’t think the Magic can win the NBA championship within the next five years.
by Mike from Illinois on Jan 19, 2009 7:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's why I made a note that this interview took place before the Lakers game.
If I shot Pelton an e-mail tonight, it’s possible he may change his tune a bit about the Magic winning a Title in the next five years. Or he may not .. his main concern is how Orlando will go about replacing Hedo (assuming he re-signs) & ‘Shard once they start aging. Also, it’ll be interesting to see HOW they’ll age.
On a side note, Pelton knows his stuff. He’s definitely one of my favorite writers.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No knock on the Magic
I wouldn’t change my answer now as far as winning a championship in the next five years. What might be changing is my belief that the Celtics are a “yes” and ahead of the Magic in likelihood of winning a title in that span, since the East playoffs are looking like a gauntlet for whoever doesn’t claim the No. 1 seed.
by kpelton on Jan 20, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Changing from a "yes" to a "no", I presume?
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 20, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent interview
Pelton is rightfully a legend among the real basketball analysts, it’s great to see this analysis.
The topic of big men and GOAT is something I’ve gotten into intensely over the years, so I have to respectfully disagree with claiming Chamberlain is the best big man ever (with the caveat, of course, that any GOAT debate contains a healthy dose of opinion, and there is never any right answer). Statistics can be skewed by different eras (the blistering pace back then, as well as the fact that there were very few NBA teams, and fewer still with legit 7 footers). Add to that the fact that Russell thoroughly dominated Wilt in their clutch matchups, and it can be argued that Russell was the greatest ever (as some do).
My personal opinion is that Kareem and Hakeem deserve to be in the conversation. Kareem possessed the most devastating offensive weapon in the history of the game, and Hakeem the 2nd most devastating in the Dream Shake. The two were superior overall defensively to Chamberlain; Hakeem in particular was awe-inspiring to watch in the post, with the quickness to pick PG’s pockets and reject 5’s. Hakeem, to me, was the most physically gifted of the big men. A “small forward in a center’s body” was how he was described; I’ve yet to see that type of quickness and coordination in a 7 footers body.
Hakeem did 2 things no one else ever did. 1) He dominated in an era of big men. Destroyed Robinson in his MVP year, shut down Ewing in the Finals, and slightly outplayed Shaq and swept him out of the Finals. Wilt, on the other hand, had only Russell, and didn’t fare too well against him. 2) He won a title with a bunch of scrubs. Not even Michael could do this. Michael needed Scottie; Hakeem won without a legitimate All-Star next to him in 94 (before Clyde).
Sorry, got carried away, but this is my favorite NBA topic to discuss. A long way of saying, I think the GOAT big man discussion is far from reaching a consensus. It’s an open debate that you can go anyway with.
The Dwight part of the question is the most interesting. He’s far away in terms of offensive polish, but his physical gifts are so rare that he has the potential to get there. It’s impossible to tell, when he’s still this young.
It’d actually be fun to have an entire post on this. Big men are the greatest part of the game, IMO, it’s always fun to debate. I wonder if Kevin would oblige to writing an article on this topic, I’d love to get his opinion.
by Snoopy2006 on Jan 19, 2009 8:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
I agree that we could go on all day debating over who’s the best Center of all-time?
I will throw these numbers out there ..
Wilt Chamberlain’s career PER (‘59-’73) – 26.1
Bill Russell’s career PER (‘56-’69) – 18.9
Just saying.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciated
I was about to ask if anyone had present-day stats like PER for older-day players. I personally don’t set as much store by stats as some, and I won’t personally defend Russell over Wilt (lol I’ll never defend a Celtic, I feel dirty), I’ll claim that in terms of individual games (more complete offensive and defensive moves), Kareem and Hakeem had Wilt’s number.
It’s a fun debate to be sure.
One thing – Dwight Howard has a weapon no other big man in the HISTORY of the NBA has had, and I doubt ever will have:
“As for Superman’s real secret power: Among the Magic, Howard’s flatulence is epic. No NBA player clears out a locker room faster.”
lol so if in a Game 7 Dwight suddenly needs to clear the post area to get free for an alley-oop, he’ll know how to do it….and they’ll never see it coming….
by Snoopy2006 on Jan 19, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
GOAT Center
I tend to stay out of these kind of discussions, because the quality of play over time is such a subjective argument (and people tend to feel very strongly about their opinions on the matter). Also, stats can’t add much to the discussion of Chamberlain and Russell (and for that matter the best part of Abdul-Jabbar’s career) because not everything was tracked (blocks, steals and turnovers in particular). So the PERs above don’t include any of those things, which would even up the gap between Chamberlain and Russell.
I did take a look at centers of the ’90s and tend to disagree about Olajuwon:
http://ww.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=415
by kpelton on Jan 20, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's true.
I forgot to add in my comparison (stupid me!) above that those numbers are a bit misleading, given the fact (as you mentioned) that certain stats weren’t tracked back in the day. You’re dead on about that. Certainly would even up the disparity a bit between Chamberlain/Russell.
Plus, PER does tend to favor scorers quite a bit .. Chamberlain would have an instant advantage in that regard since he was a more prolific scorer than Russell. So I’m sure even if blocks, steals, & turnovers were added to the equation, Chamberlain probably would have the higher PER. Though the margin between the two players would be closer.
I’m real curious what each of their Win Shares would be.
Thanks for dropping by & providing some input Kevin.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 20, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shaq for the win imho
'Coach, Dwight is a nice guy. Dwight don't hit anybody. But Superman will knock the crap out of you.' - D12
by Eyriq the Red on Jan 19, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you go strictly by career-PER, sure (26.5 for Shaq).
But I have to go with Wilt .. he literally revolutionized the game.
Senior Writer for DePaul's Scout.com website
by erivera7 on Jan 19, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. I haven't seen Rashard with that much emotion ever.
That was interesting watching him speak about Obama.
Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jan 19, 2009 10:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Anyone around for Cavs Lakers?
Sports Picks 365
"Shoot first, ask questions last" Jameer Nelson
by DieSlowKeyshawn on Jan 19, 2009 10:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I was watching for a bit, but I have to get up early, so alas, I am heading to bed :)
rather uneventful game, I thought. Basically Kobe vs. LeBron with some Wally Szczerbiak thrown in. :)
by TheGiantSquid on Jan 19, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
who would of thought Ariza for three to put the game officially away.
29% on the year. yah, wouldn’t work here.
by fwedo on Jan 20, 2009 12:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the Ronnie Price mention, I think he’d be a great choice to sign next summer.
http://nbaroundtable.wordpress.com/
by NBR on Jan 21, 2009 8:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs



















